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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Running Electric to my Coop

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Tip

09-25-2004 18:31:51




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Hey folks, I need to run electricity to my chicken coop. About 150 feet from my house or barn. I can't really go underground without going through two nice stone retaining walls. I can run the wire here and there through the trees. Anything wrong with doing that? I only need a couple of lights inside and maybe one flood on the outside -15 or 20 amps should suffice.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Tip

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Simon

09-27-2004 20:20:28




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
I run an out door extension cord to my coop (100 ft). It's plugged into a GFI. I take it up in the spring, and cattle don't trod on it. This is the cheapest option by far, and supports a couple of lights (one for heating the waterer - 40 watts) I would only run a continous length of cord.



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Tip

09-27-2004 08:17:02




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 Thanks another question... in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
Thanks guys, I am going to get a copy of the code and get an electrician out to give me a quote and some ideas. I have no desire to do anything half a'd.

How about solar? I have done a little research and believe my limited needs could be satisfied with a solar system. Not cheap, but could be a fun project and won't cost that much more than running the electric. Thoughts?

Thanks, Tip



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T_Bone

09-27-2004 12:55:45




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 Re: Thanks another question... in reply to Tip, 09-27-2004 08:17:02  
Hi Tip,

I like solar. A 12v deep cycle battery from Wally World about $70, then a 12v florescent 22w lite from Camping World about $35, a 20w PV pannel from ? (I'll need to look up the name) for about $100, a CC ( battery charge Controller) about $25 and some wire.

That would give you 5hrs of lite per day from the above lite and keep the battery recharged.

Want 115v for a short period of time? A 400w invertor for anout $30, just about from anyone.

If your thinking of using any type of heating elements or heavy invertor use, then solar is not the way to go as it's too expensive.

T_Bone

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Tip

09-28-2004 08:25:12




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 Thanks........ in reply to T_Bone, 09-27-2004 12:55:45  
I think I am going to put a solar system out there with an extension cord/GFI backup. About the same cost, a little friendly to the environment and something I have been wanting to play with for a long time.

Thanks for all the help!

Regards, Tip



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Big Jim

09-26-2004 22:30:11




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
Lots of comments here. Some good, some really bad advice. I have a 2002 NEC(national electrical code) sitting on my desk at home. It weighs in at several pounds. If you want to preserve any degree of safety for you, your family, and your animals, you have 2 options:
1. Buy the book, read and understand it, and then do it yourself.
or
2. Have an electrical contractor look over the job and give you a quote. There's a chance he would even let you help with some of the grunt work.

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Short Round

09-26-2004 18:08:57




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
Hi Tip, one thing you must remember about the advice you get over the internet, it is worth what you pay for it. Many people mean well but just dont have the knowledge to answer electricial questions. Take the answer from the "Licened Electrician" I would refer him to article 527 of the NEC (National Electrical Code) 527.4(J) which states in part, "vegetation shall not be used for support of overhead spans of branch circuts or feeders." Turtle has given good advice and I would tend to follow his answers. Have a knowledgeable electrician who knows the code look the job over and give you ideas. If you go with one circut out to you building you will keep the job simpler, cause if you go with two or more then you will have to add ground rods, the code will call for two ground rods if you bring more than one circut to your building. Good luck with your project.

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Mark - IN.

09-26-2004 21:30:40




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Short Round, 09-26-2004 18:08:57  
Short Round, I agree with you. Right after I posted this morning I thought to myself, wish I could take that back and just have said "Have a licensed electrician take a look at it, probably even pull the proper permits, and do it to both National Electrical and Local Code (which can be even more stringient), for one's own good and safety.

But it was too late, I tried to help, and spoke too soon. I couldn't take it back.

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Mark - IN.

09-26-2004 07:32:58




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
First, never try running anything through trees - flex too much, and if wires don't break, sheath will rub through on bark eventually, and cause problems. Could put up poles, but gotta have a stringer to hold up the cable because over that distance copper will stretch and break over time. And running airial cables most generally require a permit ahead of time anyway.

Can't bury because of stone retaining walls? How deep are they? Can't get underneath them? And if can and do, at least put a conduit sleave underneath them for potential settling of the walls. Are they part of a foundation? If so, come up out of the ground and stub into your bldgs (coop and source) with 90 degree LB's (resemble elbow, but have a cap for access). Conduit stub from LB into the ground to your local code depth, then can run proper direct buial from point A to point B. Make sure have good grounding and ckt brkrs at both ends of the cable - lightning locates and loves shallow cable. And one GFI per ckt as your first recept - trying to add multiple GFIs on a same ckt will cancel each other out, and will always be popping off the ckt brkr.

Isn't a hard job to do, but since you're asking, you may want to trench and have a licensed electrician handle for you.

Oh yeah, if you bury, dig a straight trench, and mark both ends, that way you can eyeball the path in the future before digging through your cable. People often dig through cables because kind've remember where they put them, sort've, but not really. Happens everyday.

And one last thing: KNOW WHERE EXISTING SERVICE IS BURIED BEFORE YOU DIG. May want to have existing located before you dig so don't hit gas, electric, water, telephone, cable TV, etc.

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Ben-SD

09-26-2004 07:30:10




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
A little advice from a licensed electrician...
The National Electrical Code allows "temporary" installations to use vegetation for support, so depending on how half-a$$ed you want to be, you could go that route... but I wouldn't. You should either: A. Use 12-2 or 10-2 UF cable, on a GFCI protected breaker in the panel you're running from. Reason for this being if the circuit is GFCI from the source, you can get by with a shallower bury. This can also be affected by what you're running thru- cable under traffic areas needs to be deeper, non- UF cable needs to be protected by conduit, etc...

...along with a bunch of other requirements you're gonna have to meet if you want this to be a legal, inspected installation, which some people find unimportant until the fire inspector and insurance adjustor start poking around whats left of the building with the illegal wiring :)

Or what I strongly advise you to do: B.Talk to an electrician who can actually see your site, get a few estimates if you've got any "free estimate" contractors in your area (many are). They'll be able to take a look at the situation, see what you need to do- and you just might save $ in the long run having a pro do the job, he'll know how to accomplish what you want most efficiently, you won't have any DIY do-overs to worry about, and you'll have a safe, approved install and not have to worry about it again. Bottom line is, with something that can kill you or someone else, or destroy property if done improperly, sometimes it's best to let the pros handle it.

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Mark - IN.

09-26-2004 21:43:37




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Ben-SD, 09-26-2004 07:30:10  
I appologize for the answer I gave this morning at about the same time you gave yours, and right after I posted, I realized that I could not take it back. Then after reading your post, I knew that I gave the wrong answer.

The best answer I could've and should've given was "Have a licensed eletrician do it", end of story.



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turtle

09-26-2004 06:31:39




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
First, don't ever tie or connect wiring to trees. When the wind blowes the trees flex and the wiring will stress and eventully break (code violation). Two, Just any old Romex is not rated for underground installation(code Violation).
If using direct burial cable the depth of burial is 2ft. I have heard that old expression many a time, I don,t have to follow the code, I live in the country. This is wrong as it is the National electric code. Realize that the code was developed as someone or something got hurt, killed , or destroyed. If I were to install this I would Install in conduit. The retaining walls I would think about going over and install GFI recepticals so that you have the convince of power there also (christmas lights,etc.). At 150 ft. you need to upsize to #10. Though the load you are talking is small, If you were to have a need for say a hammer drill that has a tendency to pull a heavier load, the wiring wont heat up and burn. As posted earlier, all recp. must be GFCI protected. Might I suggest that if you know a liecensed electrian, ask them to come over and help get you in the right direction. Most of us as long as were not really doing the job don't mind giving advice so as not get some one hurt. The nominal fee if any that they ask is a lot cheaper than the OR or worse.

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Bus Driver

09-26-2004 06:30:32




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
The code does not permit that type wiring to be supported by "living vegetation". Trees sway far too much in the wind- ask the folks in Florida. Use poles that will keep the wire 12' above ground. With pole buried 4' deep, that is a 16' pole.



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Dean MINNESOTA

09-26-2004 06:17:14




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
If you do the work yourself, for only a little more money(relatively speaking)you can run 220 volt out there and there put in a small box to split into 110 volts. 150 feet results in quite a voltage drop at 110 volts but is much smaller at 220 volts. For only a couple of light bulbs it probably doesn't make any difference, but if you ever want to operate some tools from that area, it may save you from burning them out.

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J.C. IN AZ.

09-25-2004 20:04:07




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
My thinking is that anything underground other than UF Cable is unacceptable for safetys sake.



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MarkB_MI

09-25-2004 19:21:27




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
Try to go underground if at all possible. You can bore through the stone walls with a rotary hammer. For a fifteen amp branch circuit, you can run 12/2 underground romex. You don't mention needing an outlet in the coop, but it needs to be GFI if you do.



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Bill Drew

09-25-2004 18:58:17




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
If you are going to jury-rig something (I would), plug it into a GFI (or daisy-chain from a GFI) at the house end. Just ran 100 amp service underground to my pole barn about 200 feet away and it cost $850. Wouldn't pay that just run a couple of light bulbs.



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Leland

09-25-2004 18:50:47




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 Re: Running Electric to my Coop in reply to Tip, 09-25-2004 18:31:51  
You could have someone come out and bore a hole to coop,that way you would not have to worry about walls or weather.



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