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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Setting well tank pressure guage

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Neal

08-13-2004 22:00:55




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I just installed a new bladder type tank on my well system. I replaced a galvanized tank that had air over water, no bladder. What should the cut in and cut out reading be for the pressure switch to give me a good steady flow with good pressure?

My old presure switch reading were on at 44psi and off at 65psi. The new prerssure switch cuts in at 40 and off at 50 psi.

We had a new 3/4hp pump installed 2 weeks ago, replacing a 1/2 hp model. The well depth is 115 feet with the pump set down at 60 feet. The fellow that replaced the pump said that a bladder type tank would be much better on the pump than an air over water type.

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T_Bone

08-16-2004 02:43:32




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-13-2004 22:00:55  
Hi Neal,

I disagree with your well man. I would look for another one!

There"s not a thing wrong with a standard air tank. They last a long time with only one cheap air snifer to go bad, about $10 wholesale.

On the otherhand when a bladder tank pops a hole in the bladder the tank needs replaced, about $140 wholesale.

The same equalivent bladder tank size is smaller, about 1/2 the size, to accomplish the same draw down gallons.

Real World Example: A 42gal standard air pressure tank has a draw down of 6.5gal at 20-40psi setting.
The equivalent size bladder tank is a 14gal tank and has a 5.1gal draw down at 20-40psi setting.

So in this example the bladde tank has LESS draw down capacity than it"s equivalent standard tank. If you need a new pressure tank or have a limited install space then it might be more cost effective to go with a bladder tank.

To change a good working standard air pressure to a bladder tank is just wrong.

Use the lowest pressure setting as you can live with as the seals in your plumbing with last longer without leaking.

T_Bone

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Nolan

08-16-2004 08:29:16




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to T_Bone, 08-16-2004 02:43:32  
Don't think I completely agree with you on this one.

The direct air tanks (like the one I have) gradually lose air into the water. This means you've got to pump them up occassionally. Bit of a hit and miss guess on how much air when doing it. If you have an external glass tube, it's easy, but most (all?) don't come with that, so it's a rather blind guess as to how much air to pump in.

If something happens to go wrong with your pump, the air in the tank can blow down into the well, losing the prime. With a jet pump like what I've got, that happens about once or twice a year. More often if I've overfilled the tank compensating for lost air.

A rubber bladder eliminates all that.

And if a rubber bladder springs a leak, I can continue to use it just like a regular direct air tank. The ones I've seen have an air nipple on the air side of the bladder.

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T_Bone

08-16-2004 09:38:41




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Nolan, 08-16-2004 08:29:16  
Hi Nolan,

The best way I found to charge a standard tank is too shut the pump off and drain the pressure tank of water, then open the tank to atmosphere or open the air sniffer. When no more air will enter the tank, then refill the tank with water.

If you tried to add access air or if the system set for a very long time then you would loose air into the closed system.

A suction check valve will stop prime from being lost into the suction piping. I usually use more than one check valve just incase one leaks.

I do agree overall a bladder tank is a much better design and space saving. But to change out a working standard pressure tank for no other reason is just wasteful use of money.

I"ve installed many of both types of systems and haven"t had any problem out of either type.

And yes I agree with putting on a air sniffer on a bad bladder tank as I have one now like that. The tank is just now starting to leak so it"s time to change out the tank after 20yrs.

T_Bone

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Nolan

08-17-2004 05:02:49




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to T_Bone, 08-16-2004 09:38:41  
Hey, that's how I set my pressure tank last time! Seems to be working well enough. Does concern me a bit in that my water inlet line is several feet off the bottom.

Yes, I do need to install a check valve. Especially since my jet pump well has a leaking footer valve and bleeds itself down nicely after about 10 minutes or so.

I'd rather not dig up the well and pull the lines to replace that valve as it'd be my luck to accidently contaminate the well. It's nice and clean tasty water. I've no experience with playing with wells. I know it's not complex, but I'm just a bit shy of it.

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T_Bone

08-17-2004 10:44:44




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Nolan, 08-17-2004 05:02:49  
Hi Nolan,

Ya pulling a deep well pump can create a few problems like having to replace some piping and the pump screen and foot valve.

I use pipe dope not teflon tape as the joint comes apart much easier the next time.

One correction in my last post is as long as the pressure tank is the higher point in the piping system then you should get no air into the house system.

If the pressure tank is the highest point then air has to be coming from a leak some where, either suction or the pressure side.

T_Bone

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marti

08-25-2004 06:55:01




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to T_Bone, 08-17-2004 10:44:44  
I just installed a new 20 gal bladder tank, guage and pessure switch (20-40). Directions say to set pressure 2 ponds below cutoff. Does this mean 18psi or 38psi. The problem I am having is if I turn on the sink, shower and then flush the toilet a couple times the water just stops dead. After a bit the switch finally clicks and the pump kicks in. This problem occurred before I changed out the pressure switch... new switch no help.

the only thing I can think of I did a little funky in the installation is that in stead of the one inch pipe I stepped it down to a 3/4 flex line because of a height difference between the old and new tank, could this be the problem. HELP my wife is staying in the city until I have this fixed and it is getting a bit lonely around here.

Thank you

Martin

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Johngilbert

09-01-2004 15:20:31




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to marti , 08-25-2004 06:55:01  
I don"t know if this helps, but my plumber said for my 30-50 (verifing whether is 20-40 or 30-50, take cover off pressure switch.) ASSUMING 30-50 lbs: -- Turn off pump switch electricity. -- Drain the pressure tank. (the more water in the tank, the more often I"ll have to do the whole operation, she said. I don"t know how you guys start with a full tank??) -- pump 28lbs of air into the tank (2 lbs lower than the the lower figure) -- Turn the pump switch back on.
Let me know how you make out via [email protected] ...John Gilbert

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TheRealRon

08-16-2004 03:28:39




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to T_Bone, 08-16-2004 02:43:32  
Your "real world" example is all wet.

Bladder tanks are far better tanks in any situation and they ALWAYS have more drawdown than the same size standard tank.

And because water never touches metal in a bladder tank, they last at least 2-3 times longer.



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T_Bone

08-16-2004 07:18:48




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to TheRealRon, 08-16-2004 03:28:39  
Post one creditable website that states what you say!

You can"t !!!

T_Bone



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TheRealRon

08-16-2004 07:43:18




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to T_Bone, 08-16-2004 07:18:48  
"creditable"? Never made it through 3rd grade huh. The word is "credible".

See the link, then feel free to apologize.



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T_Bone

08-16-2004 08:17:42




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to TheRealRon, 08-16-2004 07:43:18  
Look at part No: 3P272 standard tank
The draw down is listed as 6.5gal for a 42gal Standard tank.

Look at part No: 4P834 bladder tank
The draw down is listed at 5.6gal, Standard tank equivalent is listed as 40gal

As stated get your facts straight.

T_Bone



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TheRealRon

08-16-2004 08:44:17




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to T_Bone, 08-16-2004 08:17:42  
HaHa! You don't even know how to compare tanks and you obviously found welldrillers.org to disagree with you so they are wrong and you are right, huh.

Aren't you the same guy who claimed you could run 12VDC through 100' of water? Wow, that explains a lot!



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Lj

08-14-2004 12:32:34




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-13-2004 22:00:55  
The most important setting is the air pressure with no water in the tank. This should be set at 2 lbs. less than the cut in pressure. We use a 30-50 pressure switch on our tank installs with little complaints. I would always recommend a 20 lb. range between cut in and cut out. This allows the pump to cycle less and deliver more per cycle. Be safe add a relief valve!



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Neal

08-14-2004 18:17:56




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Lj, 08-14-2004 12:32:34  
Thanks for the info. I was told by the fellow that replaced the pump that there was no need for a relief valve as long as I had one on the hot water heater. He said that it would accomplish the same thing. He is an older gentleman and is well respected as a well driller.

Another problem that we have (with both the old and the new pump) is that when we flush the toilet, the water at the sink shows a drastic decrease in volume while the tank is refilling. Any ideas on what I need to do to correct this?

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Lj

08-15-2004 08:49:01




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-14-2004 18:17:56  
I would watch the gauge on the well tank if you see a dip in pressure guage at the tank while you are flushing the toilet and runnining the sink then you have a well, pump, or tank problem. If the pressure shown at the gauge holds steady while you test this then your problem is in the piping or mabey a filter clogged?
The saftey on a water heater I believe is set for 150 lbs. This is above the rating for most well tanks Which have a 75 or 100lb. rating.

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TheRealRon

08-15-2004 03:24:22




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-14-2004 18:17:56  
Relief valve... they cost chump-change... better safe than sorry.

Volume... I can think of 5 or 6 reasons off the top of my head and until you learn what the problem is you won't be able to correct it. Get a plumber to look at it. He will verify pressure and volume from the pump tank. After that, he will check the household plumbing. It should be easy for him to figure out but it might not be so easy to fix, for example, mineral fouled pipes.

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Neal

08-15-2004 12:24:47




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to TheRealRon, 08-15-2004 03:24:22  
I would doubt that I have a pipe problem, as we have excellent water at this place. There is absolutely no rust or mineral deposits at any of the fixtures or in the tanks. However, I did install a filter into the system some time ago and it could very well need a replacement filter. I have plenty of spares, so I will do that first. Because our water is so clear, I just didn't think of the filter in the system. That just may be the problem as it came on gradually.

Thanks to all that responded. It is apptrciated.

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buickanddeere

08-14-2004 07:20:59




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-13-2004 22:00:55  
Some toilet valves begin to seap at 60+psi. If the pressure switch is in the basement and the vlave two stories above. About another 5-8 psi can be added. 14.7psi will push water up 32-33ft.



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TheRealRon

08-14-2004 03:50:16




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-13-2004 22:00:55  
The tank should have come with instructions which should be followed. Tanks operate at a "nominal pressure"; that is, if it's rated for 40 psi then the pump should turn on at 30 and off at 50; if rated at 50 psi then the pump should go on at 40 and off at 60.

The guy is right, air bladder tanks have a much greater drawdown so the pump runs less. Less starts means the pump lasts longer.



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Joe (Wa)

08-13-2004 22:16:21




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 Re: Setting well tank pressure guage in reply to Neal, 08-13-2004 22:00:55  
Most wells in this area use the 3/4 hp pump and average 180-200 ft. Pressure is generally set 40 on - 60 off. 10 psi is not enough pressure differential to take advantage of the the volume tank in my opinion. Check the air pressure in the bladder before changing the cut-in pressure, should be about 2 psi less than cut-in switch pressure for full efficiency. Adjust bladder pressure as needed. Should be a tag on the new tank with mfr's instructions.

Joe

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