water hydrant

The point about the hydrant being a ground unto it's self is well taken; except I live in the south, and my standpipes are PVC with a brass hydrant sitting on top.

A fence charger may put out 5,000 volts, but the impedance is such that you are not at risk (less you have health problems...ticker) and it pulsates .

I have been trapped between a metal barn (on a ladder) and the hotwire running down along the side (on insulators) and got some really good whacks that hurt, but they weren't life threatening.....unless I fell off the ladder and broke my neck.

I put the ground where I want; heck with the Philadelphia boys.

Mark

Power company was very careful to balance the load & deal with that issue - can really affect cattle as well.

I'm sure it's a lot of overkill & covering the lawsuit issue, but 'just' someone who does wiring for a living isn't even good enough any more for a livestock building..... :)

I just bought a heat-tube energy free waterer for $650 to give my cattle water over winter here in MN without electricity anywhere near the water area.

--->Paul

Mark

--->Paul

• heat tube waterer

Wonder if a underground cistern below frost line with two stand pipes, one smaller diameter than the other, would also keep the above ground pool liquid at freezing temps.

Ground temps at 8ft are pretty stable year around at approx 50º

T_Bone

Look up 'stray voltage livestock' or 'dairy' and read up on it. There have been several dairies that went out of business due to sick animals, presumably caused by very low currents that come out of the water system. Several power companies lost million-dollar lawsuits because of stray voltage from unbalanced lines & bad grounding near dairy barns. It's your livestock, and the fencer company is covered because they warned you - so do what you want. :)

However, all hydrants I know of are metal, so your setup is particularly bad - a ground rod near a metal hydrant both in the ground next to each other, with plastic pipe insulating the rest of the water system.

You very likely are a prime candidate for stray voltage. Cattle, dairy esp, are very, very sensitive to this.

--->Paul

My $.02

The fencer ground & the water pipe will not pose a hazard to humans. That is not the concern here.

Unless you add a whole lot of bare copper ground wire to anything metal anywhere the livestock can touch, and properly ground _that_ wire somewhere - do NOT bond the fencer ground to the water hydrant!!!!

You will be making the stray voltage issue much worse. Humans don't even notice it - not an issue for us or a danger to us; cattle avoid it to the point of making themselves sick - won't drink until they dehidrate. Other livestock vary in their reaction to stray voltage.

Got me curious, looked up 'stray voltage dairy' & came up with many hits. Seems cows change behavior with as little as 2v at 2 mAmps, and 4 volts is considered a really bad situation. With the intense pulse of a fencer to 10,000v or more, I can see why they want such a wide seperation!

Check out http://www.msue.msu.edu/msue/imp/modda/
usda6960.html

--->Paul

• stray voltage & dairy

This has lead to lawsuits against equipment manufacturers and power suppliers on the basis of lost weight gain, or lowered milk production due to the electrical leakage causing the animals to lower their intake of food and water.

I suspect the fencer manufacturer is practicing CYA by telling you to keep the fencer ground so far away from the water line.

Normally, it is safe electrical practice to "BOND" all grounds and water piping together, and this would seem to go against that.

Anyhow, the final "JUDGE" in this matter should be your State Electrical Inspector. Contact them, and get their "official" take on this matter.

Stray voltage is a another can of worms...

While 50' might be a little excessive, I personally wouldn't recommend putting them right next to each other. Anything more than 6-10' feet should be sufficient. Depending on your soil type.

In any case, you don't need a lawyer or electrician or plumber. Obviously you have to move the ground rod anyway so move it say 6' or more feet away. As long as the water pipe is far enough away from both the fence and ground rod so that a person could not touch both at the same time, I see no problem.