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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

5W20 Oil

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KB

07-26-2004 17:08:22




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Just got a new (new to me) car with the balance of the new factory warranty on it. They are calling for 5W20 oil in the engine. Isn't this stuff pretty much water? First of all I know this subject is worse than politics or religon but what I would like to know is this just as good as the 10W40, should it be changed more often (usually hit somewhere around 4k miles for a change), why so thin? Anyways, didn't know where else to ask this question and you guys all seem to have your heads screwed on right so let the games begin.

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Ron

07-27-2004 05:09:52




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
Manufacturers are moving towards lighter weight oils primarily for fuel economy reasons. However, lighter weight oils also have these advantages...

1) >90% of all engine wear occurs between the time you turn the key and when full oil pressure is developed. Thinner oils flow faster, pressure builds faster, hence less wear.

2) It takes energy to pump oil, the thinner the oil, the less the energy, the better the mileage.

3) Pumping oil heats it, the thinner the oil, the less energy it takes, the cooler the oil remains.

4) Oil's ability to lubricate is based on flow (as above) and film strength. Our modern full synthetics and synthetic blends have higher film strength and therefore lubricate much better the thicker, conventional oils.

The guys are right... follow the manufacturer's oil type and weight recommendations and you not only get better mileage but longer engine life.

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jtaylor

07-27-2004 08:56:36




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 Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to Ron, 07-27-2004 05:09:52  
any one know what kind of oil my hydra drive
transmission takes in my pre 1975 massy ferguson
8hp ride on takes.



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Leland

07-27-2004 14:17:48




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 Re: Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to jtaylor, 07-27-2004 08:56:36  
I have an allis garden tractor ,but I use TYPE F trans fluid in it



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T_Bone

07-27-2004 03:44:10




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
Hi KB,

I agree about running mfg recomend weights.

When I was researching what to use in my new 7.3 PSD, I decided on Chevron Delo.

Since that was so good on diesels, I tried Chevron Supreme 10w30 in my Chevy 4cyl. I picked up 2mpg on the first tank and 4mpg on my second tank and thats where it's stayed for the past 18k miles, plus 4mpg.

I've used Quakerstate for the past 40yrs. When I switched to Chevron Supreme my oil cleared up after a couple changes and looked like the factory oil did at change time, dark amber. The Quakerstate was black at 2/3 of change mileage. I'll never run Quakerstate again!

Told my son about the fuel mileage gain with the CS, so he changed over on his Ranger and got 2mpg better.

T_Bone

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Ben in KY

07-27-2004 10:54:24




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 Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to T_Bone, 07-27-2004 03:44:10  
As I have said before some manufacturers oil recommendations are a bit dated. I have a 1968 IH 2444. The origional owners manual states that you can thin down your oil in the winter with kerosene. I am NOT going to do that :)



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Leland

07-26-2004 19:56:37




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
The surfaces on crank and journals are harder so a lighter oil will work just fine a ford wrench spinner told me all the heavier oil will just wear bearing out faster so I would just buy the 5w-20 at walmart



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RusselAZ

07-26-2004 21:07:01




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 Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to Leland, 07-26-2004 19:56:37  
Bearing journals may have their own life but where to heavy a oil will show up first is in driveability. It causes engine missing and sometimes strange things. The largest example is in the 7.3 powerstroke. Just ask someone who doesn't change the oil and the injectors don't want to work.

On smaller engines the heavy oil will hold the lifters or whatever type of hydralic cushion is used in the valve train in such a way the valves don't close when they should.

ANother just ask is the fella that tried running 20-50 in his 6.8 V-10 Ford RV cause it was what he used in his old 460. Nasty valve train.

Anyway, use what the owner's manual or the filler cap says.

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Leland

07-26-2004 22:02:44




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 Re: Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to RusselAZ, 07-26-2004 21:07:01  
The guy that told me this about the 5w-20 oil swears that to heavy of oil will cause wear .dont ask me how but he's been a ford wrench spinner for 40 yrs and never had reason to doubt him



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Nolan

07-27-2004 03:35:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to Leland, 07-26-2004 22:02:44  
He's right, it will. In fact, run a real heavy oil in there, and you may blow the engine.

The bearing clearances are very tight. The large molecules of a thick oil don't flow into the bearing space well, and the bearing runs comparatively dry and burns up with the heavy oils.

The thin viscosity oils with their smaller molecules are able to flow into the tight bearing space, and provide lubrication.

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david - OR

07-28-2004 07:01:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to Nolan, 07-27-2004 03:35:08  
Nolan's advice is accurate, but his physics is a little off.

Oil viscosity is a phenomenon driven by the formation of hydrogen bonds between molecules within the oil, not by the size of these molecules.

The size of the molecules of the constituent hydrocarbons of a thick oil and those of a thin oil is about the same.

Molecules are very, very small compared to bearing clearances. You can measure the diameter of an oil molecule with a simple experiment like this one:>Link

A>Link "tight" bearing clearance of .001 inch is more than 10000 times greater than the diameter of an oil molecule.

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Dieseldoc

07-26-2004 22:17:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to Leland, 07-26-2004 22:02:44  
Use the reccommended oil for these late model engines. I work for a Ford dealer and we have seen
numerous oil filters blown open from to much pressure caused by using improper viscosity oil. The tolerances on these new engines are much closer and the wrong viscosity oil can cause big
luberication problems. The wrong viscosity could possibly void your warrenty.



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napaguy

07-26-2004 18:37:00




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
we sell quite a bit of 5w20 oil.car manufacturers pay their engineers really well to figure stuff out. go with the 5w20.



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big fred

07-26-2004 19:36:52




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 Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to napaguy, 07-26-2004 18:37:00  
Well, actually they don't pay all that well, according to the ones I've met that left the auto industry to work in aerospace. But your point is well taken. When you are designing a journal bearing, you design it for a specific viscosity. Anything other than that will be something other than what the bearing is designed for, and it just won't be properly lubricated.



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MAC,IL

07-26-2004 18:00:38




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
I dont use nothing but regular 5/30 oil. Thats what is recommended. However most dealers around here use 10/30. I would stay away from 10/40 oil in a relatively new automobile. Just change it and filter every 2500-3000 miles, dont use any miracle in a can additives either. Oil,and OEM filter will be the cheapest thing you can put in an engine.



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Coloken

07-26-2004 17:53:41




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
I loved 10-W40 in my old tractors but for gosh sakes use what the manufacturer says. This a whole new world out there from what us old timers knew.



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Meant 15-W40

07-26-2004 17:57:42




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 Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to Coloken, 07-26-2004 17:53:41  
Correcting my self..that was 15-W40 I liked.
Kenny



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CNKS

07-26-2004 17:30:32




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 Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to KB, 07-26-2004 17:08:22  
Clearances in new engines are much closer than they used to be, allowing the use of lighter oil -- driven by fuel economy standards. Don't know what car you are talking about, but in a warm climate 10W30 or at a minimum, 5W30 is what I would use. There have been problems with 10W40, and although it is still available, it hasn't been recommended for new car engines for several years. I don't put 10W40 in anything, but do use 15W40 in tractor engines, etc.

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wgloff

07-26-2004 19:09:16




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 Re: Re: 5W20 Oil in reply to CNKS, 07-26-2004 17:30:32  
New Fords specify 5w20. I buy the Motocraft brand at Wal Mart for a little over a buck. It is also a synthetic blend.

It always gets me how people know more about these things than the guys that designed and build them. Use the recommended oil.



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