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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Air Compressor RPM

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Dominic

07-26-2004 15:38:03




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I just acquired a old 2 stage air compressor with a 80 gallon tank. It has a 5 hp 3-phase electric motor that I need to replace with a 1 phase motor to run it in my shop. The motor that's on it now runs at roughly 1100 rpm but gets reduced down at the pump by roughly 5:1. I'm going to replace the motor. should I stick with the 1100 rpm motors or go with the 3,000 rpm motors. Does anybody know the optimum rpm of 2 stage compressor motors? Thanks for the help. You guys are great on this site!

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Roger

07-29-2004 18:25:09




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 Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Dominic, 07-26-2004 15:38:03  
I'll be brief..... ..For a change.

See the website below for everything you need.

Regards:

Roger

http://www.aircompeq.com/ka.htm



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Larry in Tn

07-26-2004 18:19:29




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 Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Dominic, 07-26-2004 15:38:03  
Most of my old compressors(Kellogg and Champion)run at approx 600rpm. I prefer the lower speed anyway.I collect and try to restore the old timers and don't really use them in a way that demands full or constant output. Other people might well feel differently about the speed issue. I've been told that below 400rpm is not enough to lube well on a splash type oiling system.
Most larger hp motors(above 3hp) run at 1720rpm/220vac. Have not seen to many 3440rpm unit's. Be sure that your new motor rotates in the same direction as the old one.
Divide compressor pulley dia. by motor pulley dia. Divide motor rpm by the result of the pulley calculation which will give you the compressor speed.
Lot's of compressor people on this forum so you shouldn't have much trouble getting up and going.
One of my back burner projects is a three phase converter so In can use those 3-phase motor's.
Larry

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Dominic

07-27-2004 10:45:29




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 Re: Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Larry in Tn, 07-26-2004 18:19:29  
I just checked everything. The compressor is a Kellog American model 331TV and the motor turns at 1750 rpm. Doing the calculation the pump turns at 486.1 rpm. I guess this would be in the ballpark. You say you collect and restore these old compressors. What can you tell me about this one? I picked it up for $50.00 from an electric motor shop that closed up. I don't see a valve to relieve head pressure anywhere. I'm sure it should have one. I'm not real familiar with these 2 stage compressors. Thanks for any help!

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Roger

07-29-2004 21:11:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Dominic, 07-27-2004 10:45:29  
Dominic:

When a compressor shuts off after cycling, there must be a way for the pressure between the exhaust valve of the compressor and the tank check valve to be released. This can be accomplised in several ways, but most often on Kelloggs, there is a small copper line exiting the cylinder head, or near vicinity of the high pressure exhaust valve, leading to a cone-shaped protuberance on the back side of the compressor. Inside this cone shaped case, there is a flyweight arrangement, kind of like those old spinning ball steam governors. When the compressor runs, the flyweights move outwards under centrifugal force, This allows a plunger to recede into the case, which closes a small valve. This valve is the one that blows down the compressor on shutdown. When the compressor shuts off, the flyweights retract under spring pressure, the plunger extends outwards, and the small valve is forced open. This vents the air trapped between the discharge of the compressor, and the intank check valve. This is to ensure that the compressor will not be trying to start against full tank pressure, which results in hard starting, excessive amp draw, and most likely, blown breakers. After each cycle, you should hear a short blast of air from your compressor. This lets you know that it is fuctioning normally. If this is not ocurring, you may have to remove the copper line, and turn the brass fitting in a few turns to get the proper clearance for the valve pin.

Congrats on your purchase. They were fine compressors.

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Dominic

07-30-2004 18:06:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Roger, 07-29-2004 21:11:32  
I do have the centrifugal unlader valve set-up. It all makes sense now. Is the 486 pump rpm close to being right or should I raise it? Thanks for all the help!



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Roger

07-30-2004 20:20:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Dominic, 07-30-2004 18:06:30  
486 rpm is kind of slow. Sounds like it was geared for a 3 hp motor. For a true 5hp motor, the chart in the link I provided in the top post says 623 rpm @ 125 psi, and 593 rpm @ 150 psi. Pulley sizes 6.12" for 125 psi, 5.8" for 150 psi. This pump is good to 250 psi, according to the charts, but you do not need that much pressure, so gear it for medium pressure and higher cfm output, which is what you really want for shop air. I assume the above pulley sizes are for a 1725 rpm motor, since 3450 rpm motors are not used extensively on proper industrial reciprocating compressors. If you must buy a 3450 rpm motor, you will probably need to cut those pulley sizes in half to maintain proper pump rpm. You may have an issue with the tight arc of contact on such small pulleys however, which could lead to slippage. Whatever you do, don't buy a fake 5hp motor like the kind you see on many cheap "cheater" 5hp compressors. You also want a motor with an 1 1/8" shaft, so it will take the tension of 3 B-belts without shearing off. Good 5hp single phase motors aren't cheap, so be aware of that fact when looking for one. Good motor manufacturers : Baldor, Westinghouse, GE, Toshiba, Lincoln, Brooks-Crompton, US motors, GEC Alsthom, Siemens.

Cheaper motors, but still decent: Hyundai, Weg.

Avoid A.O Smith motors.

Just my personal preferences.

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Larry in Tn

07-27-2004 18:09:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Compressor RPM in reply to Dominic, 07-27-2004 10:45:29  
I have a Kellogg model 321. Got mine at an auction. It has a 2.5hp Ajax motor--1720rpm/220vac. It's a vertical model with an 80gal tank. You did well price wise. I paid three times as much. Even at the higher price I think I did ok. My unit was built in 1965 according to the tag. Not much involved in getting it up and running. The unit had been setting up for five years. I basically checked it out and did some pre-checking to make sure everything was ok. Made sure I could crank it over by hand, put in new oil, powered-up with drain open and let it run without loading the pump down. After about 5 minutes closed drain and let pressure come up while looking for leaks and signs of pump or motor distress. Also checked motor current to see if it agreed with figures on motor tag. The motor is a big heavy(125lbs)for real industrial unit. It appears at ease turning the pump.
My pump has an unloader circuit that pipes head pressure from the head to the pressure switch unloader valve via a 1/4 tube. I've not been far into this pump so I can't tell you much more about it. Some of the larger kellogg pumps have a centrifugal unloader and do away with the exterior tubing. I have an old Brunner using the above type unloader.
Everyone speaks well of the Kellogg units so you should get good use from it. Parts are still around but they come high.
The compressor man on this forum is Rodger. Maybe he will read this and check in.
Larry

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