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OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electrical

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LENRAY

07-16-2004 16:53:20




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Back with another well question--I had asked yesterday about running wire to heat the bladder tank or using the 220 that was there.
Here is what I found--from the switch that is above ground there is a copper line that runs down along the pipe 5 ft. it is hooked to a 1 foot long pipe that is on a tee where the line comes out of the well casing. I THOUOGHT this would be where the PRESSURE TANK would be located. The pressure tank isn't hooked to this copper line that is hooked to the switch.
The pressure tank must be hooked into the water line out from the well--have dug out from the well about 6 ft. and haven't found the tank.
I was just worried that this tank might rust a hole in it or the bladder would go bad in the winter when the ground is froze.
Any thoughts on what I should do--forget it or try to find and get it above ground.
Thanks for your help.
len in michigan

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Jim

07-21-2004 13:19:24




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
Lenray: when you turn a faucet on in the house it should be a smooth flow, if you didn't have a tank the pump would kick on and off constantly and the flow would be spuratic. The tank is buried for a reason, you probably have no basement so the mfg's made a direct burial tank for this reason. it should be just below frost line so it does freeze. I made a pit, dug down about 5 feet framed with heavy wood, ran my water line through the pit and installed a regular pressure tank in the pit. Made a cover so it wouldn't freeze.This way you have access to the tank if you need air or just a repair. Put an outdoor electricial receptical inside the box with a cover for power, you can feed a 110 line as a jumper off your 220 lead. Don't put the direct burial tank above ground, you will have problems in the winter.

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tiny

07-17-2004 06:55:51




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
You got the permit ask the guy the drilled the well he should be able to tell you where it is if he is still doing it.



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Dusty

07-17-2004 04:58:42




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
I know of a 4" well, on a farm, that was put in about 30 years ago. It has a buried tank that is like a donut, it is part of the well casing, no platter, one has to add air to it once in a while.
This is in Michigan, Lansing area.

Dusty



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Leland

07-16-2004 19:27:45




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
Have you looked in I belive you said for a trailer. There are some very small pressure tanks on the market. We have some that are only 3 gals and you can hide them just about any were. So if I were you , look in small spaces may be by water heater or bathroom or may not have one at all. To find out run pump then shut off ,turn on tap and see if you have flow that will at least fill sink . If water stream stops quickly no tank

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Chuck (VA)

07-16-2004 19:14:12




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
Do you have a friend with a metal detector? Your tank is about 18" in diameter and 2 ft tall. Should be easy to locate if it is buried.



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buickanddeere

07-16-2004 18:46:25




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
Never seen a well pressure tank or LP tank buried in the ground around here. Getting rid of the last few underground single wall gasoline & diesel fuel tanks too.



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Ron

07-16-2004 17:36:19




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
In your climate most pressure tanks, if you actually have one, are installed in or under the building being served. Usually in a basement or crawl space, sometimes in a pit. There are almost never installed near the pump. Kinda common sense actually, if it were, when the ground froze, the supply pipe between the tank and house would freeze just like the ground. Heat tape cannot be used underground.

Michigan has a well registration program. All wells have a number and the location of each component of the well... the well itself, tank, controller, lines are documented. You can contact your county clerks office with the tag number on the well and they can put you in touch with the proper authorities. Unless, of course, you have an illegal well.

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T_Bone

07-16-2004 17:22:41




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
Hi Lenray,

I would first test to see if you have a bladder tank.

Wait till the well pump cycles off, then open the main line and drain into a 5gal bucket. Count how many 5gal buckets fill before the well pump kicks on.

Less than 5gal then your bladder tank is water logged or your suction check valve is leaking or you don't have a bladder tank installed.

A bladder tank can be installed by a "T" any where on the main line run, althought the most common spot is next to the pump.

You can add more than one bladder tank to a system. This would keep the pump from cycling on so often.

T_Bone

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lenray

07-16-2004 18:21:08




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 Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and el in reply to T_Bone, 07-16-2004 17:22:41  
Ron T bone others
The well was put in in 96 hAVE THE PERMIT- it is 220 ft. total depth--it serves a mobile home.
The paper work states that it is a Wellrite tank capacity 30 gallons 10. WR100UG is the number that the paperwork states is what the tank is.
Because it goes to a mobile it is not in the mobile--it is buried but not at the 5-6 ft. level at the well where I figured it might be.
My guess is that it is out a few feet from the well have checked out 3-5 feet sofar.
Not sure whether to look some more or just forget the idea.
The reason for my looking was that I thought it would be better for me the owner to service it if I ever had a problem.
thankyou

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T_Bone

07-16-2004 19:15:18




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 Re: Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank an in reply to lenray, 07-16-2004 18:21:08  
Hi Lenray,

You can use a 6v or 12v battery to help locate the tank.

Take the positve battery lead and connect to water pipe at the well, then take the negitive and connect at the MH water pipe.

Make dang sure it's not the GAS pipe.

Use two #14ga copper/iron wires 24" long with a 5" piece bent at 90� . Hold the 5" piece in each fist straight out from your body, elbows at your side, then walk the water line.

The rods will stay crossed when over the water line and uncross when not over the line.

If you move just right you would be able to spot the small tank.

To confirm the tank location use a piece of 1/2" pipe on the end of a garden hose, a length longer than forst line, apply water pressure, then probe the ground until you hit the water tank.

This will work with plastic pipe as long as the pipe is full of water (water carry's the current and sets up the magnetic field that causes the rods to cross) and the battery terminals touch the water.

T_Bone

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Ron

07-16-2004 19:43:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tan in reply to T_Bone, 07-16-2004 19:15:18  
"water carry's the current and sets up the magnetic field that causes the rods to cross"

Huh?



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NOT SO!!!

07-17-2004 21:07:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder in reply to Ron, 07-16-2004 19:43:54  
DC will not create a magnetic field, AC does because it goes from positive to negative in each cycle



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Fred OH

07-21-2004 10:35:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bla in reply to NOT SO!!!, 07-17-2004 21:07:14  
Ron...did you ever take a screw driver and wrap around the metal shank any insulated wire a few turns and then touch both ends of the wire to the terminals of a six or twelve volt battery? Could you explain how the screw driver becomes magnetized? And what about the relays that are in electrical equipment ...don't they use DC because the DC running through the windings creates a magnetic field forcing a commutator to move forward to close or open a set of points. AC going back and forth...looks like it would cancel the field that the other half of the sineusoidal (sp) wave set up? Fred OH

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Ron

07-16-2004 18:33:56




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 Re: Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank an in reply to lenray, 07-16-2004 18:21:08  
They usually can find a diagram the driller made when it was installed. That should show about where the tank is. Another way is to find the supply pipe entrance at the home and then look in a straight line back to the well. If you see a shallow depression, lush grass or weak grass... anything different than the surrounding area, you might dig there and hopefully you'll find a pit. They are usually covered with boards so if you hit wood, keep digging.

Or, if you have a neighbor with a metal detector, he might want to show off for you.

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tiny

07-16-2004 16:57:08




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 Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and electr in reply to LENRAY, 07-16-2004 16:53:20  
Are you sure you got a tank?
Or are you running just off the well?



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Keith-OR

07-17-2004 20:52:23




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 Re: Re: OT SUBMERGIBLE well bladder tank and el in reply to tiny, 07-16-2004 16:57:08  
Has to have a tank, You CANNOT compress water.Without a captive air tank, pump would be cycling off and on.



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