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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

trailer quistion

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tiny

07-15-2004 17:29:18




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why did my axles roll forward on a tandom axle set up? They are set up with the 60-40 split.




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Leland

07-16-2004 19:50:14




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 Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 17:29:18  
Simple Tiny get the grinder out and remeasure your math is off a bit



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T_Bone

07-15-2004 22:55:13




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 Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 17:29:18  
Hi Tiny,

I agree with Nat, your hanger spacing is wrong. Look on Dexter website thru there lit section and they will have the spec's for the spacing for different axle/spring combinations.

The drawing will show the correct weld placement for the hangers.

A few thoughts;

You welds appear to be thin on the leg of the weld. The leg should be as wide as the thinnest member. Example: A joint 1/4" x 4" x 6" with a butt weld 3/16" 3" x 5" intersectng tube, then the weld leg would be 3/16".

You don't show any frame support gussets at the 90º corners (out of the picture ?). Although a tube butt joint is a strong design, over time this joint will become weak. A 45º gusset will add great strength to the joint. Gusset leg length would be equal to member flange width.

Example: Using 3" x 6" x 1/4" tube then the gusset leg should equal 3" x 3" x 45º. I like to notch the 90º cornner off about 1/2" as this lets the gusset fit around the fillet weld.

A frame should be a box around the axle area. This is a very high stress point of the frame as it takes the load weight as well as road loading forces.

Most DOT inspections will require multiple member thickness at the spring hangers. I haven't looked up the code but normally they want to see a piece of angle iron equal to the frame flange width with a continous span thru the spring hangers.

Example: A frame made 3" x 6" tube with a spring hanger span of 80" from front hanger to back hanger, would require a piece of angle iron 3" x 3" x 1/4" by 86" long to be skip welded along the length to the frame then the spring hangers would be attached to the bottom of the 3" angle iron.

Most structual joints require a bearing plate (the 3" angle iron) for joints tranfering load weight as this greatly reduces joint stress of the hanger mount by distributing that stress over a larger area (helps keep the frame from cracking).

Typical skip welding design is the weld leg equal to the thinnest member, minimum 1-1/2" long and spaced at twice the members width. Example; 3" x 3" x 1/4" angle would be skip welded with a 1/4" leg, 1-1/2" long, every 6".

Why 1-1/2 long"? We allow for 2 rod diameters of cold lapp weld for each end so our effective weld length is 1" long for stick electrodes. Mig we allow for 3/8" cold lapp.

T_Bone

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BFO

07-16-2004 15:19:45




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 Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to T_Bone, 07-15-2004 22:55:13  
Uh, well, I've been involved with trailer building for years now and have never heard of such a DOT or MTO requirement for frame design. In fact those guys do not want to get involved frame design, the manufacturer is the one that has to build a sound product through engineering and certified welders. Also, If you weld a piece of angle to the bottom of a tube all you will do is set up a scenerio for rust. Eventually the rust will build up in the joint and try and separate the two pieces, it'll be a real mess.

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T_Bone

07-16-2004 16:30:53




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 Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to BFO, 07-16-2004 15:19:45  
Hi BFO,

Ya I haven't built any new "homemade" trailers to get new plates on so I haven't looked into this requirement. I got this from a couple of local guys that could not get registered until the frame member was added. Newer commerical flatbed trailers are also using a simular design. Maybe just a local Arizona requirement.

Several of the semi trailers use a member stack design around the axles and have for several years.

There is bolt on tongue jacks and WD mounting plates also use a flat bearing plate against the frame.

There is also several different configurations of plate to plate mating surfaces for attaching couplers with some being welded and some bolted on.

Most receivers, 5th wheel, GN hitchs use a plate to plate mounting design.

Rust doesn't seam to be a problem in those applications.

T_Bone

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Loren

07-17-2004 10:58:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to T_Bone, 07-16-2004 16:30:53  
Rust would definitely be a problem in this area with those design requirements. 10 years and there would be a real good start to failure. Course we're all sposed to be rich enough to shed our trailers, right? lol



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BFO

07-16-2004 16:35:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to T_Bone, 07-16-2004 16:30:53  
We had a fellow up here that made 9-ton floats by welding 6x4 tube side by side for the length of the suspension, after a few winters in the salt and wet you can guess what happened.



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Phil Kriesel

07-16-2004 06:21:25




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 Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to T_Bone, 07-15-2004 22:55:13  
could someone post a link to the Dexter website with the axle spacing.
Thanks



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Burrhead

07-16-2004 17:56:45




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 Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to Phil Kriesel, 07-16-2004 06:21:25  
.



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Nat

07-15-2004 20:31:52




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 Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 17:29:18  
I don't have my litature here in front of me but it does look like you have the correct spacing for your spring hangers. Most use something like 26 1/2' inches from front hanger to mid hanger, and same to back hanger. It is real easy to get 1 set of shackles upside down when you are sitting it on the wheels. It isn't a problem, just flip the front set back into position and as long as it is on the wheels you will never have a problem. Gravity works all the time and as long as gravity is working they will stay in place

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denny

07-15-2004 20:06:56




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 Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 17:29:18  
ok how do i explain this..just went out and checked mine with the falshlite...mine was factory built but has the same set up...the rocker has to be under the spring eyes the shakles then extend up from the rocker to the spring.the shakle on the right is almost in the right position.unbolt the one on the left and put in on like the other one.then it should work...if you need a pic email me and i'll take one.....

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JD720

07-15-2004 19:29:11




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 Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 17:29:18  
Shackles should be pointed slightly away from the center pivot. That way they cant get flipped over.



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tiny

07-15-2004 19:34:29




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 Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to JD720, 07-15-2004 19:29:11  
They were till I set it down on the tires. The spring ends were under the "rocker" about 1 inch or so. Would the "rocker" being 2inches lower be the problem? The axles were/are tilted slitly toward each other.



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JD720

07-16-2004 22:48:51




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 Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 19:34:29  
After looking closely at the picture it appears that the arch of the axle is toward the bottom. Is that the case or is it just my eyes?



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Shane

07-15-2004 21:48:12




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 Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 19:34:29  
Spring ends go over the "rocker", not under.



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RusselAZ

07-15-2004 17:59:31




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 Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 17:29:18  
Either your stationary shackles are to far apart or you went over a high curb or uneven ground,,like a ditch. when you get the shackles flipped over with the frame level and both wheels on the ground, you want the moveable shackles to be angled slightly toward the pivot bolt (each other) and not straight up. Nice picture



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tiny

07-15-2004 18:12:10




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 Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to RusselAZ, 07-15-2004 17:59:31  
This is what happened when I put the tires on and set it on the ground it has not moved on the tire yet. The shackles were pointed toward the center pivot.



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DL

07-15-2004 20:00:23




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 Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to tiny, 07-15-2004 18:12:10  
you mentioned a 60/40 split... are the stationary (outermost) spring mounts equi-distant from the center pivot??? or is that where your 60/40 split is??? if so, it won't work... the center pivot must be centered between the outer spring mounts. I'm sure there will be a wide variety of responses to this question, but I mount my springs/shackles so that the center pivot set-up resembles a W when installed... that is, the outermost spring mounts are mounted about 1" further apart than the exact center to center distance on the spring/pivot set-up. A previous post mentioned that the center shackles should not be straight up when the trailer is sitting on level ground, but should be kicked "in" slightly... I disagree with that theory and instead mount mine so they are slightly kicked "out". The reason I do this is that when a heavy load is placed on the trailer, the springs will flatten out (which "lengthens" each spring) and the shackles will then move closer together as a result of that load... if they start out being closer together, the result is a lot of unnecessary strain on all the hardware! HTH
Regards, DL

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DL

07-15-2004 20:14:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to DL, 07-15-2004 20:00:23  
took a closer look at your photo... looks like all you need to do is "flip" the shackles (on the left side of the photo) over and all will be well!!!



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Shane

07-15-2004 21:46:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: trailer quistion in reply to DL, 07-15-2004 20:14:25  
I second that one! Probably since you said you put the tires on then put her on the ground when it was in the air the left axle just flipped over center and got below the equilizer. No biggie, happens sometimes when you jack them up. Either take it off and reposition on top or put a load on it and it will go itself.



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