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J.b weld or other product for head repair?

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john r

10-12-2000 20:45:00

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I have a frost crack on a 650 ih head,outside only I think,still had some liquid water when i clued in.I would be comfortable welding it myself but I would like to try something like jb weld first.Is there any other product for this job you like to use or is jb weld the favorate.thank you for any advice.

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Stan

10-15-2000 21:24:21

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Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to john r, 10-12-2000 20:45:00

The crack should be dry as a bone or the jb weld will not hold. I have tried repairing a block while it is upright and water in the block with no success. Tried it with the block laying on its side and dry then it worked fine. Different areas will have different problems.

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john r

10-15-2000 08:27:23

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Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to john r, 10-12-2000 20:45:00

I thank all of you for the many replys about head repair but i think you old boys strayed off the subject just a little bit. Is there something better than jb for this?

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Dean

10-13-2000 04:55:44

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Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to john r, 10-12-2000 20:45:00

I've used both JB Weld and Loctite Weld with great results for this type of repair. Clean the crack with something like brake cleaner (leaves no residue) and force as much of the epoxy into the crack as possible. Success depends on how much the casting moves after the repair. In some cases it might not work so you may have to weld it but the epoxies are certainly worth a try.

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T_Bone

10-12-2000 22:24:31

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Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to john r, 10-12-2000 20:45:00

Hi John, For a permante fix, welding is the correct way. JB weld has it uses, this isn't one of them.

T_Bone

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mike

10-13-2000 03:00:14

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Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-12-2000 22:24:31

Some yoyo broke thhhe ear off a cast iron carb on one of my old pops. I welded it back on w/ stainless rod, but still had fine crack that drew air. Instead of weldinng it again I put JB weld on both sides of weld and it works fine

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T_Bone

10-13-2000 03:19:48

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Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to mike, 10-13-2000 03:00:14

Hi Mike, Man this is hard to type to make it sound right and not sound like it's a put down, cause it ain't ment that way!

SS filler rod or stick rod,304,308 or 309 will not adhear to the castiron without cracking or leaving hairline cracks. I've tried it even with preheating when I ran out of nicad rod and even tried Tig. Now nicad rod or brass rod will not leave the fine hairline cracks as the weld metal composision is closer to castiron and adhears better.

T_Bone

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Mike

10-13-2000 07:50:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-13-2000 03:19:48

While I have your attention, I have a pair of 34" wheels I have to widen this winter. I will probaly cut them w/ a 6" grinder and a cutting disc. Buddy down the road suggested getting done w/ a plasme arc cutter, but as usual on a budget here. What rod would you use to put em back together with. Machine shop is gonna bend the spacer for me 1/8 " stock 7" wide. I'll probaly run 6011 at 100 amps to start maybe 110 if it doesn't burn through. I'd guess could only run 4-5 " at a time or distortion and burning holes will be a problem. I plan on putting the spacer on the outside of wheel(where it is visible when tire is remounted) but I don't think that is a factor do you? I will lap the spacer 1" on either seam and weld both lap joints inside and out. Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike

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T_Bone

10-13-2000 08:08:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to Mike, 10-13-2000 07:50:29

Hi Mike, To keep distortion down, tackweld every 1-1/2" and burn one rod then rotate 180 degrees, skip weld to either joint side. The rule of thumb is 50 times metal thickness for length of tacking but closer tacks keeps the warp away. Besure and clean too bear metal 1" on either side of center weld. From the rods you listed sounds like you have a AC machine. If you do 6011 is a great rod and deep penatrating. 7024 makes for one beautiful weld but it's a DC rod and only for flat and horzontial welding. But it shore runs nice!

T_Bone

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John Morris

09-27-2001 14:19:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-13-2000 08:08:50

I think your best bet is if you have a oxy unit arount brase weld it about every inch worked good when I did it. Then clean good after the first pass and wait a few mins then run another set in between the. Finish it off by running a pass on eack side of the weld. that shoud work good

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Mike

10-13-2000 07:33:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-13-2000 03:19:48

No ofense taken, but if you are trying to educate me, donn't waste your time. Instructor in college was impressed w/ my skills stick welding when I started his classes(I'd been stick welding in farm shop since age 10) he was thouroghly discusted w/ me after a year w/ my inability(refusal) to identify metals and select the proper rod. 95% of the stuff I weld gets run w/ 6011, if I want it pretty(rarely) I cover it w/ 6013. When neither rod will work I try my stainless rod. I weld what I think I can get away with, If I question can I do it or safety is a factor, a buddy down the road does it for me. Thanks for your input. Mike

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80 Grit

10-13-2000 09:06:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to Mike, 10-13-2000 07:33:22

Mike, if you already have the "answer" why did you waste our time by asking a question?

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Mike

10-13-2000 09:38:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to 80 Grit, 10-13-2000 09:06:08

Didn't realize I did have the correct answer and was looking for educated input. In the future please don't read any of my questions or replies as obviously your time is way to valuable to waste on someone like me. Mike

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80 Grit

10-13-2000 17:07:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to Mike, 10-13-2000 09:38:17

Judging by your response given to T Bone above and the fact that Mike is a common name, if you will use the username of Bonehead, I will be immediately able to recognize your posts and will skip them forthwith.

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Keli Ray

04-29-2002 12:03:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to 80 Grit, 10-13-2000 17:07:42

TO: J B Weld Co.
My husband and I race in the Grand nationals division of Nascar in East Wenatchee Washington. Our Camaro ended up with a sever water leak in to the oil. We spent $500.00 having the block repaired, only to find a new crack under the water pump when we put the motor back in. Our first race was comming up in 5 days and our new race motor was not going to be finished in time, so we took a risk, we pulled the motor, filled the crack with JB Weld and put it back in. He raced three races that night and took 8th in the main event. Thanks for your product, because of it we were able to race.

Keli Ray, Clarmar Racing

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Mike

10-14-2000 17:14:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to 80 Grit, 10-13-2000 17:07:42

If you were able to follow the thread through you would see I never posted a question, just a reply as to what JB weld had worked on for me. As far as T bones responce it is appreciated and I will probably try to utilize it on my rim project. As far as Mike being a common name, perhaps it is; but if my parents named me 80 grit I'd probably have a poor attitude as well!(ever hear Johnny Cash, A boy named Sue?)

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T_Bone

10-14-2000 03:27:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to 80 Grit, 10-13-2000 17:07:42

Hi 80grit, Please don't drag me into a arugement as I have a enough of a hard time keeping out of them. :) I think you have to realize typed responses will not always have the same meaning as if we were talking in person with the added face movements for that added "interpetation" of what was said.

I took Mike's comments one way and you took them another, which they could be taken the way you saw it, but I really don't think Mike ment it that way.

Just a thought!

Now would you guy's please kiss and make up as this board is just too much fun!!

T_Bone

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Mike

10-14-2000 17:21:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-14-2000 03:27:31

T bone, you figgered me out! If I meant to be offensive, no one would have any dought as to my meaning! I thinks what I says and I says what I thinks. Thank you for your input on my rim widening job. You did guess wrong though; I have a Lincoln ac/dc welder that is older than dirt . I have never used the dc switch though. Mike

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T_Bone

10-15-2000 12:37:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to Mike, 10-14-2000 17:21:27

Hi Mike, Try the 7024 on DC, rod holder postive lead, just a pound, and you'll see why I suggested it. Run in down hill at about a 5 degrees for one rod length, weld hot short arc length ( push the rod into the weld puddle) and you'll see that your welds will look like your the greatest welder there ever was. 7024 will weld about 15% faster than 7018 and won't be as hard to control. It'll put 6013 to shame. After running a few rods you'll be able to make a "pealer flux" weld, the flux will come off the weld by it's self.

My Lincoln is 35yrs old and keeps on ticking!

T_Bone

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robert hudson

11-01-2000 12:24:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-15-2000 12:37:43

OK. you guys are going to laught at this. But I worked with an old guy who would weld water jackets/heads/etc. with nickel or 7018 or whatever and right after chipping would melt stick sulfur along the repair. The sulfur would seep into any faults and seal water out. The sticks are available from welding supplers

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robert hudson

11-01-2000 12:24:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-15-2000 12:37:43

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Steve U.S. Alloys

10-13-2000 05:51:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-13-2000 03:19:48

I have to agree with you Ken.

Cast iron has a carbon content of 3% to 4%. Put simply, stainless steel is too hard by nature and will not always respond to thermal cycling in a favorable manner when used to repair cast iron base materials. The coefficient of expansion and contraction of a softer material such as nickel, or a copper based filler metal like brass, can be a distinct advantage. Brass however, will eventually crack if used to join a carbon steel vertical stack to a cast iron exhaust manifold, due to vibration.

Another key factor in using nickel filler metals (99%) on high carbon base metals such as cast iron is the fact that carbon is not soluble in nickel. This eliminates the migration of carbides from the HAZ into the weld deposit unless a Ferro-nickel alloy was used.
Steve

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T_Bone

10-13-2000 07:54:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 10-13-2000 05:51:49

Hi Steve, Good point on the vibration as I forgot we were dealing with a manifold. Does US Alloys use the AWS rod classification numbers? I was looking at your #2200 and #1270 for an example. That 2200 sounds like the wonder rod of the year!

T_Bone

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Steve U.S. Alloys

10-14-2000 09:31:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: j.b weld or other product for head repair? in reply to T_Bone, 10-13-2000 07:54:56

Depends on the product. The AWS classification is used primarily for regulated applications and selecting filler metals for production purposes. Companies like ours are trying to address a different niche. We market many products that are designed for purposes where the end user may not be aware of the specific type or grade of metal and ideal conditions do not exist. They may also require a product that overlaps to meet the needs of several applications or in some cases just to make them a better welder. Also, some of the wires are too new to be classified by existing conventional means. The AWS provides some general classifications in certain areas that mean simply that.

Fluxes also play a big role in cored wire and stick electrode design. A 6011, 6010 and 6013 all use the same wire. The flux differentiates them. We have some cast iron electrodes that use the same wire and different fluxes for each.

We have had several invitations to provide samples of production type electrodes for trial to be followed up by a quote. I would like to see us get into that market. It seems that many people today mail order their supplies and I believe that trend will continue. We have had complaints from some job shop owners that buy repair products from us, and production products locally. They say that the some of the big local chains are delivering a different brand product to them each time they place an order. Brand name is governed by whoever submitted the low bid that month to the distributor. Sounds a little like the Wal-Mart way. Now I've been in this game for a long time and I know that welders 'do not' appreciate that. If they have confidence in a certain brand, that's what they use. They don't want a different color of flux, let alone a different brand name altogether.

We may add some 60 and 70 series electrodes to our line and a wire or two. If anyone who currently orders electrodes and wire online or by phone would e-mail me and help me figure out where we need to be and what we need to stock, I could use that info to influence the powers that be at U.S. Alloys.
Steve

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