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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake?

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KEG

07-15-2004 13:01:12




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I am experimenting with the idea of using hydraulics for brakes on a vehicle I want to build. I have heard of vehicles that are powered by hydraulics and the hydraulic flows are reversed to provide braking power. In my situation, the hydraulic "motor" would not be used to provide power because there is no hydraulic pump. But it would be called on to provide braking, i.e., stop the axle from spinning.

I know a hydraulic motor can provide lots of torque to cause an axle to spin, but I can't seem to figure out how to make the "motor" work to stop the spinning. In other words, the "motor' quietly sits on the axle hopefully providing no significant friction. And when it needs to stop the spinning, the fluid flow is changed to cause the "motor" to stop the spinning.

Anyone have any ideas with the limited info I just provided?

Thanks,
KEG

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9njoe

07-20-2004 12:29:16




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 Re: Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake? in reply to KEG, 07-15-2004 13:01:12  
KEG,

This is an easy one, in your application the motor would function as a pump. You need to connect a flow control valve from one port to the other and fill the system. Now, when the valve is wide open, the only drag on the motor will be due to the frictional losses and the oil viscosity. As you begin to limit the flow through the motor, the pressure will build up and create drag. If the valve was hard closed, the rotor would be locked. Dont use an on-off type valve, use a flow control device like a needle valve. Also keep in mind that cooling could become an issue given the small amount of fluid circulating in the system and also be sure that you use properly rated parts with respect to pressure. If you got that rotor spinning and you suddenly close the valve, you could build thousands of PSI.

Joe

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TimFL

07-16-2004 08:23:53




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 Re: Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake? in reply to KEG, 07-15-2004 13:01:12  
And to be effective as a brake your hyd system would have to be equivalent what it would take to drive the machine hydraulicly. i.e. you could not use the hydro mechanism from a lawn tractor to stop a pick up.



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Ryan

07-15-2004 20:57:49




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 Re: Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake? in reply to KEG, 07-15-2004 13:01:12  
Why would you need to reverse flow? Simply closing the valve or limiting the flow through the valve will cause a slow down or stop. If you stop the flow, with no air in the system the motor can not spin, so the wheel can not turn.



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Bob

07-16-2004 07:45:46




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake? in reply to Ryan, 07-15-2004 20:57:49  
He did not mention in his post if the machine would even operate in reverse. If it does, the flow would be reversed through the pump (motor), and the suction and disharge would be reversed.

I had suggested using on elevated tank, which would keep air out of the circuit, and keep the oil cooler. If the system were set up in this manner, and needed braking in reverse, you'd need two valves. If you could eliminate the tank, and just have a closed loop, you could have braking in both directions with just one valve.

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Ryan

07-16-2004 20:24:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake? in reply to Bob, 07-16-2004 07:45:46  
Bob, I was referring to a simple gate valve rather than a directional valve. if the gate is shut in the loop no fluid can flow period.



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Bob

07-15-2004 13:48:25




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 Re: Hydraulic motor as a wheel brake? in reply to KEG, 07-15-2004 13:01:12  
There will be contious friction losses from pumping the oil, but it could be done by mounting a tank of hydraulic oil well above the motor (to gravity flow the oil to the motor (which would be acting as a pump), and keep air out of the system), and plumbing the lines from the motor into the tank, so oil is always circulating. You would have a valve in the output line from the pump to the tank, and when braking is needed, the valve would be partially or totally closed to slow or stop the flow of oil, which would stop the wheel also.

Potential problems:

1.) If there is much mass (weight) to the vehicle at all, there needs to be a pressure relief system, as sudden closing of the valve would build HIGH hydraulic pressures that would probably damage or break something.

2.) For braking in reverse, you would need a second valve, as the other line from the pump to the tank would now be the "pressure" line.

3.) This system would not be suitable for holding the vehicle on a slope, as the motor will "creep" as the oil slowly leaks past the gears or pistons in the motor.

If you are talking about building a small lawn-type vehicle, have you considered using a hydrostatic drive from a garden tractor?

Cub Cadet hydros often sell on ebay in the $10.00 to $100.00 range. However, there are some problems there, too, as you'd need an oil tank, and someway to seal the output shaft from the hydraulic motor. (Unless you used the whole transaxle.)

Search on ebay for "cadet hydro" or "Sundstrand".

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