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Need help applying varnish to oak trim

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NTP

07-09-2004 02:39:45




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I am in the process of pre finishing all of the oak trim for a new home. What is the best way to prep, stain and varnish the oak trim to get a smooth finish. This is my third whole house that I am doing, and no matter what procedure I use, I get the small "bumps" in the final finish. The procedure I use is to sand the trim with sanding sponges, fine, and then superfine. Then I wipe the oak down with a tack cloth, stain it, and after leaving time for the stain to dry, I apply a quality polyerathane satin finish varnish. I lightly sponge sand inbetween coats to minimize the litttle bumps. This gives me a pretty good looking finish, however, I can still see and feel some small bumps in the final finish. Any help on this will be appreciated, as I have a huge stack of trim boards to still do.

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Ed

07-18-2004 05:52:12




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
"poor tom" had the right solution. Use the wipe-on poly applied with a lint-free cloth pad.

Ed



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dtanner

07-11-2004 22:41:04




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
A Wood shop teacher demonstrated to me how dust rises to the top of each coat of finish you put on. Sanding between coats with fine sand paper or really used sand paper, will knock off the dust particles that give the "rough" feel to the finish. I like 320 grit white sandpaper(it contains talc) and doesn't load up so fast as you sand, then dust between coats. Good luck, dtanner



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poor tom

07-09-2004 19:39:27




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
There is a simple solution. What I do is sand after it is dry. Then dip a rag in the varnish and rub on a thin coat. It will dry almost right away and will leave a satin smooth finish. Don't soak the rag, just dampen it.



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DL

07-09-2004 17:12:20




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Sounds like you're on the right track as far as applying the stain/varnish... one thing I learned the hard way is that virtually every "fine finish" is rubbed out after each coat (no matter what product is used for the finish) including the final coat!!! There are a variety of products available to help you get a great looking finish. A previous post mentioned "the white pot scrubbers" one trade name for this product is "scotchbrite" and it is commonly used in the furniture trade. Another option is to use a felt block with pumice (2 grades) and rottenstone... use water as a lubricant. You can also use a product called "wool lube" with steel wool to rub out your final coat of finish. Check woodworker.com for a complete listing of finishes and abrasives to complete your project. You might also consider using an aniline dye instead of a conventional stain for your trim. Water based dye (available in powder form you mix yourself and also available from woodworker.com) has about the best UV resistance of any product on the market. It's available in virtually a rainbow of colors... generally 1 oz of powder will make a quart of dye (probably more than enough to do the trim for your entire house) and costs around $5.00 (depending on the color chosen). If you do choose a water based product, wipe the bare wood with a wet sponge FIRST (to raise the grain of the wood) and let dry. Sand to about 400x, tack off, and apply dye. You might use an extra fine scotchbrite to carefully rub over the dye (once it's dry), tack off again, then apply your solvent based poly. I think you'll be impressed with the results! If you go this route, please try it on a scrap of wood before you dive in to the whole project. If you'll be applying multiple coats of poly, lightly sand between coats... once the final coat is dry, rub out as I mentioned previously. Hope this helps. Sorry this is so long!
Regards, DL

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GG

07-09-2004 14:48:57




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Don't use Sanding Sealer under Polyeurathane! The Poly will not stick. If you do decide to use Sanding Sealer, don't use "ACE" brand. I got into a big mess and Ace told me to use mineral spirits to remove. Their sealer would not dry. Sherwin-Williams sealer was used with no problems on the same piece of furnature. It took over three hours of rubbing to get the Ace sealer off. Ace Hardware was no help and didn't seem to care!

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denny

07-09-2004 14:29:04




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Are you stirring the varnish....if you are dont...it creates air bubbles which will give you little bumps also.....



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GB

07-10-2004 06:21:12




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 Re: Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to denny, 07-09-2004 14:29:04  
Stirring should not cause any problems if done gently. Vigirous stirring or shakeing is what causes the bubbles.



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Chuck (VA)

07-09-2004 09:10:44




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Besides the sanding sealer mentioned. I put two push pins in the end of each board. After applying the finish, I roll the boards wet side down to dry between the saw horses with the push pins supporting the piece on each end. Seems to help keep airbourne dust from settling on the wet finish.
Have also found the white plastic pot scrubbers work better than 00 steel wool for final sanding between coats and give a similar finish.

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RandyB

07-09-2004 08:40:50




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
The old painter that did my house used fine steel wool but he always put a coat of sanding sealer on after the stain and sanded with the fine steel wool and wiped clean and then the varnish and mine looks like it has been sprayed smooth as baby butt.



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MAC,IL

07-09-2004 06:16:38




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Try a dab of the water based varnish, dries a little quicker.



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Mattlt

07-09-2004 05:49:52




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
A friend of mine rubbed his trim with old newspaper after the final coat of poly. You don't get the fine particles that steel wool leave.



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Gus

07-09-2004 04:07:26




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Try using a quick dry, easy sand sanding sealer for the first coat ( or two)(after staining). Still sanding and tacking between coats. Dust control is a good idea in the shop. Then final coat with the poly. If you could find a quicker dry final coat, but durable, it might dry before all the phantom dust shows up. I have heard of using super fine steel wool and mineral oil after final varnish coat but never tried it.An HVLP sprayer would put all your coats on fast an evenly.

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Ron

07-09-2004 03:54:36




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 Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 02:39:45  
Polyurethane takes all long time to dry and until it does dust particles settle on it causing the bumps you have.

I hose down the garage floor, close the door, and then apply the finish. The high humidity keeps any particles from floating around.



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NTP

07-09-2004 21:29:14




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 Re: Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to Ron, 07-09-2004 03:54:36  
Someone suggested using the varnish without stirring. Satin finish varnish must be stirred well, getting the bottom of the can mixed in good, or you will end up with a glossy finish. The ingredients that produce the satin finish settle to the bottom of the container. Scotchbrite is rather course for sanding, so I use 3M sanding sponges to prep the oak. I use a fine pad first, and then go over the trim again with superfine, and then tack the dust off. I also use the superfine pads inbetween coats. Once the trim is put up, you have to look to see the little bumps in the finish, but they are there.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will definately try some of them.

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DL

07-10-2004 09:20:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 21:29:14  
A final thought on scotchbrite... as I mentioned earlier, it's available in several different grades... the extra fine (white in color) is soft enough you could almost use it for a wash cloth... we use it reglarly for a variety of polishing jobs... works GREAT!!!



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Cliff

07-10-2004 08:19:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help applying varnish to oak trim in reply to NTP, 07-09-2004 21:29:14  
Leave the boards varnished side up. The varnish is slow drying and needs gravity to help it flow. The airborne particles will find the wet varnish either way. And yes, you must stir varnish occasionally. This past winter I had a project that required two coats of spar varnish hand applied to over 10,000 lineal feet of tongue and grooved 2 x 6s. As always, I stiired the varnish frequently and ended up with a nice job.

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