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Easy Diesel question can't be answered

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Shane

07-04-2004 10:07:54




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We have a lively conversation on what makes a diesel engine make more power and what makes more rpm's on the link below. I just can't understand what makes more rpm's on a diesel. You will have to read through the first 5 or so threads to get to the question at hand. BTW I am AlbinoRhino there. Can anyone explain what makes the engine spin faster?

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bcPA

07-05-2004 09:58:20




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 Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answered in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:07:54  
my cummins has no butterfly valve to control the air coming in to the engine. The throttle is connected to the fuel pump and the fuel pump only. It has a electric selonoid fuel shut off valve to stop the engine. So I do believe this proves the amount of fuel introduced in to the engine thru the injectors regulates the speed and also the power it puts out. Some other diesel engines have a butterfly in the intake but I believe its only function is to be used to shut the engine down when you pull the shut off cable.

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MarkB

07-05-2004 16:19:59




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 Re: Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answered in reply to bcPA, 07-05-2004 09:58:20  
In cases where a diesel engine has a butterfly valve in the intake, it is part of the governor and not really a throttle valve at all. I've seen this on a Mercedes marine engine and also on a Fordson Diesel Major. I believe they use the manifold vacuum to indirectly measure engine speed, rather than a flyweight governor. When you open the throttle, it opens the butterfly valve which causes the intake manifold vacuum to drop. This in turn causes the injector pump to deliver more fuel, in turn increasing the rpm until the manifold vacuum rises to an equilibrium point.

Ask me how I know? A friend and I had his Mercedes marine engine run away when we accidentally started it with the butterfly valve removed. Scared the heck out of us. Don't ever start one of these engines with the butterfly valve removed!

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txblu

07-06-2004 05:46:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answered in reply to MarkB, 07-05-2004 16:19:59  
So after you got over "flutter fever (Quail flushing)" how did you stop it and how long did it take to get your composure?

Mark



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MarkB

07-06-2004 12:23:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answ in reply to txblu, 07-06-2004 05:46:57  
Mark,

Well, that is an interesting story!

The little Mercedes diesel was in my friend's 30' Tahiti ketch, vintage 1939. (The engine was a little younger than the boat, 1960s vintage.) When the motor took off, both of us knew we'd made a big mistake. He immediately went to the fuel shutoff valve and started cranking it down. I should note that the shutoff was astern of the engine, and that Tahiti ketches are "double-enders" (two pointed ends, like a canoe). This means that to reach behind the motor, he had to squeeze between the screaming motor on one side and the battery and fuel tank on the other. That done, we both decided to "abandon ship". My friend jumped out the companionway (directly over the motor), but I headed to the bow, only to find my way blocked by a battened hatch. By this time the cabin was full of smoke, but my friend realized my predicament and got the hatch loose from the outside.

After what seemed like an eternity, the Mercedes ran out of fuel and died. I'm sure the whole event lasted less than a minute, but it sure seemed longer. Fortunately, we had a couple of warm beers on hand to calm us down, but we were both shook up for the rest of the day. My friend didn't even try to restart his motor until the next day, figuring it was trashed. Much to his surprise, it started and ran just fine. The Mercedes took him up and down the east coast for the next 13 years, until the ketch was lost in a hurricane about five years ago.

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txblu

07-08-2004 09:11:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Easy Diesel question can't be in reply to MarkB, 07-06-2004 12:23:38  
I'd bet when he was reaching for the shut off he was thinking "this baby's going to blow any second now".

Glad it turned out (except the wrecking).

Mark



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T_Bone

07-05-2004 01:34:45




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 Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answered in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:07:54  
Hi Shane,

This is almost a never ending debate question.

It starts with the basics, fuel & oxygen. From there you add designed componets to make the engine prefrom what you want it too.

When you reached maximum componet design then you can add higher BTU fuel content until you have engine failure then you start designing a new engine thus the never ending debate.

Another good debate is; Whats more important in a diesel engine design for moving weight, torque or HP?

Torque of course :)

T_Bone

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MarkB

07-04-2004 11:40:29




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 Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answered in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:07:54  
Doesn't make any difference whether it's a diesel or gas engine. Or a steam engine.

Any engine operating at a constant speed is at an equilibrium where the power produced by the engine equals the power required to run the vehicle (or stationary machine) at that particular speed. When the power produced by the engine exceeds the power required, it accelerates. When the power produced by the engine is less that the power required, it declerates.

OK, so what causes the engine to produce more or less power? Simple: power equals torque times engine rpm. More torque at a given rpm means more power. What causes the engine to produce more torque? Answer: the pressure inside the cylinder. Opening the throttle on a gas engine increases combustion chamber pressure; adding fuel to a diesel does the same thing.

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txblu

07-05-2004 05:23:48




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 Re: Re: Easy Diesel question can't be answered in reply to MarkB, 07-04-2004 11:40:29  
Nice answer. simple and accurate.

Mark



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