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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Proper Tools....Name your Favourites!

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Roger

06-28-2004 18:54:05




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I've been in tool-shopping mode lately (well, always actually...) and I am somewhat bewildered at the sheer number of manufacturers. While there are several stores offering tools at incredibly cheap prices (I did get suckered into buying a dirt cheap angle grinder which will see use about once a year), I know enough about tools to realize when something is too good of a deal. So I have decided that if I need a tool, I'm going to actually spend enough to buy quality. In various industrial plants I have worked in, I noticed a trend in the brand of tools being used: Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita. I used to run an angle grinder for 10 hours a night in one welding shop, they used Makita grinders exclusively, and they took a horrible beating, but never quit, so one big positive for Makita. I just finished a contract at a plant that makes large belts for pulp and paper making, they use DeWalt exclusively. The circular saw was nice, with built in motor braking, and the cordless drill was also a substantial piece, though the chuck slipped a bit too easily for my taste. They also had a few Milwaukee tools, but I only used a 3/8 drill for a few holes, so I can't comment on it.
Do you think tools like these are a bit of overkill for homeowner use?
Looking at prices, Milwaukee always seems to be the costliest, with DeWalt and Makita coming in in that order. Is that indicative of their relative quality? Is Makita a Japanese brand? I was looking at a 260W Weller soldering gun today, and it was made in Mexico. I know the one dad used to use making ham radio antennae was quite a nice unit, but is the quality still there?
Does anyone have any experience buying factory recon tools? There is a clearance outfit here that sells factory recon tools at about 60% the price of new. So far I have seen DeWalt angle grinders and rotary saws on offer.

Finally, is Black and Decker still a decent brand (if it ever was)?

I picked up a nice Fluke 333 clamp multimeter for about half price in a pawn shop. While I probably wont need the amp meter much anymore, I wanted to replace the one some low-life stole from me a couple of years back.

Sorry for all the questions at once.

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Dean Minnesota

07-01-2004 18:06:25




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
AS an inspector for the Dept of Tranportation, I also take an interest in the tools that the contractors use, considering that all of the help is union and relatively well paid. Its my observation that 95 % of all the welders are Miller and 95 % of all the small engines are Honda, and most of the gas chop saws are Stihl. NO contractor can afford to have guys wasting time trying to get equipment to run, so reliability is a must and these companies have it as demonstrated by the purchases made by the contractors.

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MarkB

06-29-2004 20:14:53




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
In the old days (fifteen years ago), the commercial grade Black and Decker tools were as good as you could buy. The B&D commercial grade stuff is no longer made, you have to buy Dewalt to get the same quality from B&D. Anything sold today under the B&D name is junk, intended for use by the same customers who buy B&D toasters and can openers (which used to be made by GE, if I recall correctly).

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BFO

06-29-2004 18:37:11




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
Well, good question. I run a busy welding and fab shop so here's my two cents. Welders-Lincoln, Hammer drills-Hilti, Misc drills-Milwaulkee (after the crap chucks were replaced with Rohm chucks), grinders-Walter(Metabo), same with mag-drills. Hand tools-Snap-on/Proto/Crafstman. just my humble opinion of course ;-)



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KURT (mi)

06-29-2004 02:44:12




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
Lots of opinions coming in here so heres mine, I had a Dewalt 1/2"hammer drill and I burned it up 3months ago, lasted 5 years and I used for mixing concrete and paint in 5gallon buckets so I really used it hard. the best hammer drill is Hilti, then Milwaukee and then Porter cable in my opinion. Woodworking tools, Delta and porter cable are the best (I dont do woodworking though) hand tools, the best are snap-on and then who ever gives the best warranty after snap-on is #2 then 3 and so on. Cutting tools, by far get American made---Cleveland twist drill, Niagra cutters. As far as machine tools, Bridgeport vertical mills are the standard. In my place of employment we bought a Bridgeport new in 1974 and it still runs good, (I would love to have a new milling machine but the plant controller is too cheap to buy one.) Oh well I will stop ranting now. See ya.

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KX

06-28-2004 20:30:29




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
Too many books written already in this thread. My favorite tool????? Cutting torch.



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buck

06-28-2004 20:28:12




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  

Tools and equipment have always been of interest to me. Always took the approach that I would purchase the ones that I expected would last a lifetime. I should clear that up and say that it should last for the life of the project that it was purchased for. The oldest electric tool that I have that is still used is a Black & Decker 1/4 drill. It is still my best drill for predrilling for screws. The shortest lived electric tool I ever purchased was a B & D hammer drill which lasted 4 holes. I have a lot of different brand name tools and can not really fault any of them. I miss my old Craftsman auto scroll jig saw that flew to pieces after 30 some years but the replacement Skill does just about as good. Craftsman cost 110 in 1971 and skill cost 60 in 2003.When it comes to circular saws I like Skill and portacable. Drills Dewalt. Dewalt miter and chop saws. Delta table saws and the old stand-by Craftsman Radial arm. Most of my mechanics hand tools are Craftsman but have some snap on thrown in and of course there is some of the China made stuff. When I retired 4 years ago I figured I was set for life in the tool department but it seems that all my tools had the same idea as it is now a constant replacement thing going on.

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Scrapper

06-28-2004 20:08:20




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
Just need any good cutting torch I can get my hands on to scrap J.D. JUNK.



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markct

06-28-2004 20:01:06




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
well i gota say i am not the kinda person who is only one color of tractors, one brand of tools etc. we have a mixture of most every brand power tool ever made i think. all our cordless tools are makita, mostly the older style 9.6v just because that was about the best out there for the money when we first bought them about 12 years ago and to keep all our batteries and chargers compatible we stuck with the makita stuff thats 9.6 and 7.2, most of which you can pick up used cheap at flea markets nowdays. at work we have a dewalt 14.4 volt drill, if i was gona buy a cordless drill today i would probably buy one of them, i think makita is no longer the leader they once were in cordless tools. as for tools with a cord now, our shop has alot of makita and millwauke tools, and we have a couple bosch angle grinders that i can say only good things about, and the same for our makita angle grinders, but my favorite is my millwauke 7 inch angle grinder cause it will realy hog down metal in a hurry, not that the brand is any better just that its the only 7 inch i got, the others are all 4 and 4.5 inch. we also have some delta tools, table saw,miter saw and a few other woodworking tools, again no complaints about any. we have some black and decker stuff too, at one time we had 3 of the cheapo B&D 3/8 drills, all but one have since died but they gave many years work, my father had bought them before i was born, and im 21 so they been around for a while. as for some of the cheaper brands, like the no name chinese stuff, we had a chinese bench grinder my dad bought about 18 years ago or so and it just finaly let the smoke out last year, for the price i consider it to have been great since it was used pretty often and i always was a bit heavy on the grinding with it! also at work i have one of those 9.99 4 inch angle grinders that i aquired when we closed down another plant, it was well used when i got it, and i have definatly put some use on it, and so far so good. only dewalt tool we own is a 3/4 inch electric impact gun that we got from a pawn shop, it works great and i have no complaints about it either, as for air tools i have all brands from ingersoll rand to chinese junk, and only a few have ever had any real problems, all have been repairable with minor work, now i wont say that our half inch chinese impact wrench has the strength of the ingersoll rand we have now, but our chinese one has worked well for almost 25 years now so that too has been great for the money. so all in all i cant say i have had any tools that i considered junk, thats not to say i havent had tools break that needed repair, we have put bearings, brushes etc in many tools over the years but none that i would consider to have needed repair before they were due, or died before there time. and also just so ya know the tools in our shop would fall under a bit more than what would be considered homeowner use i think we do alot of fabrication and projects and that sorta stuff so they get used fairly heavy but not commercialy. so basicly what im saying in a round about way is that most any of the major brands , makita, milwauke, bosch,dewalt,delta etc are a pretty safe bet, and many of the chinese tools are ok for occasional use, but they are a gamble, the chinese are gettin pretty good at making hand tools these days but there electric tool skills still seem a bit sketchy, so sometimes ya might get a grinder that works for years and other times you could get one that burns out the first time you use it so dont spend much on anything chinese with a cord. pawn shops and flea markets often have some decent used brand name tools for about the same as a chinese knockoff.

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Larry in Tn

06-28-2004 19:38:50




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
Roger
Your question is one that will generate all kinds of opinions so here's mine.
If you are going to earn your living with these tool's as I have, you need to give yourself every advantage and buy the best. Best aint always the most expensive. My first major tool purchase was made with a tool allowance check when I entered the apprentice program at GM. That was 44 years ago. I bought Craftsman from Sears and still have 95% of them. I also have Snap-on, Proto, Thor, SK Wayne and some Williams(a good tool).
Drill motors are dictated by use. I have a Milwaukee. It's big and heavy and has to be plugged into 110vac but I've not found anywhere I would want less for hammering thru concrete.
I have two Black and Deckers. One is over 25 years old the other is new. I figured the old one needed a rest.
Buy the best you can afford. Don't loan them out. Don't leave them out to be stolen. They will most likely out last you.

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Ron

06-28-2004 19:33:28




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
You will get lots of different opinions on this and here's mine...

All the tools you mentioned are first-class. I have some of all of them. I'm a little partial to Makita but you cannot go wrong with any of them.

One caution. Don't get locked into one brand. Each manufacturer makes one or two tools that are simply the best but no one makes all the best tools. For example, when I needed a rotary hammer, I looked at a bunch of them, bought a Bosch, and could not be happier with it.

As far as meters go, Fluke is #1. They are also mighty pricey. I have an old Fluke DMM for electronic work but for truck/tractor work I use a $40 Radio Shack DMM. If I drop it, I'm out only $40, not $400.

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wdTom

06-29-2004 18:18:08




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 Re: Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Ron, 06-28-2004 19:33:28  
I will agree that each manufacturer has a couple of winners and a couple of not so good tools and a lot in between. I think that Milwaukee though has a lot of winners and not any loosers that I can think of. We use them at the plant where I am in maintenance, and I have used them before this job too. If in doubt buy Milwaukee.



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Charles (in GA)

06-28-2004 20:30:27




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 Re: Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Ron, 06-28-2004 19:33:28  
Ron is right, all the big names make a dud or two, and they all make the best of something. Fact is, they don't make all of the stuff they sell. Some of it they do, and some is designed by them and made by someone else, might be good, might not be.

Makita is based in Georgia here in the US but is a Japanese company, and the 4 1/2" angle grinder I just bought of theirs is made in China, but it is well made and for sure to their specs.

As far as hand tools, Many of the common brands today, Craftsmen, Matco, Allen, Armstrong, K-D, Fluke, Robins, and a few others are all made by one company, Danaher Corp.

Link

This may explain why these tools tend to look alot alike. Danaher has been licensed by Sears to market Craftsmen tools outside of Sears, so the big tool companies/suppliers like Zigler are now actively pushing Craftsmen tools. The quality of Craftsmen hand tools dropped off after Danaher got the Sears/Craftsmen contract a number of years ago.

I have WWII vintage Craftsmen, Plumb, Snap-on, and others that my dad bought new and I perfer them to the newer tools I have. Might be because I've used them for so many years I've grown used to them.

I'm a professional mechanic and will buy 20 to 40 year old used Proto and Williams wrenches and sockets rather than buy the new, cheap stuff.

An aquaintence of mine, a tax appraiser in an adjoining county, was a tool design engineer and took an early retirement from Williams Tool Co. in Columbus, GA (their home office) after Snap-on bought them and started cutting. He said the Kobalt brand you see in Lowes is made by Williams but in Taiwan. They designed it here, but he said some inexperienced engineers designed it and that some of the tools (specifically the rachets) will not carry the designed torque before failing. The quality is simply not there.

As far as power tools, I stick to the brands you name, and stay away from Black and Decker and the other cheaper brands. I did buy a $19 angle grinder from Northern to grind some bad welds with, and it works, just vibrates till your hands are numb. Bought the Makita to replace it. I have a Makita Circular saw, and every single carpenter (full time professional) I've seen working on anything in the past five years was using that same Makita, they all say its the best weight and durability.

Personally I'm not fond of DeWalt, the quality of design and manufacture seems to vary too much.

Charles

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James in North Carolina

06-29-2004 15:05:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Charles (in GA), 06-28-2004 20:30:27  
The Kobalt line is now made by Danaher. The switch from Williams to Danaher was made about a year ago. I have a set of Kobalt metric wrenches made by Williams and I love 'em. The new Kobalts made by Danaher look exacxtly like the ones they also put the Allen name on.

If the Williams made Kobalts were made in Taiwan, Lowes was guilty of false advertising as the packages said they were made in USA.

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Butcher

06-28-2004 19:22:16




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 Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Roger, 06-28-2004 18:54:05  
Milwaukee Is good but, I like DeWalt better. Now if you are talking woodworking I will swear by Porter-Cable.



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bigtom

06-28-2004 19:54:54




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 Re: Re: Proper Tools....Name your Favourites! in reply to Butcher, 06-28-2004 19:22:16  
makita is made in georgia and are fine tools, surprisingly ryobi is making decent tools for casual use, I have the 18 volt cordless tools and they seem ok for durability/price, but porter cable is my favorite for tools that have the bejeezus worked out of them



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