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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Any hints for welding uphill?

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Alberta Mike

06-28-2004 04:41:49




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I am welding some sidepockets on my friend's trailer this week. Although I have some mig experience, I have not stick welded for some years. Any suggestions for welding going vertically upwards that might be worthwhile before I start?




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Tommy D6-8U

07-03-2004 06:18:38




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
Personally, I would move the trailer to level ground and not weld it uphill. (smile)

Tommy



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Earl Borchardt

06-28-2004 21:57:35




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
Do not weld down hill????? I can hear my pipe line welders laughing already!!!!



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john in la

06-29-2004 06:22:23




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 Re: Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Earl Borchardt, 06-28-2004 21:57:35  
Why would they be laughing????? To make fun of or rip some one that can not weld as good as they can. Sounds like a typical pipe line crew.

No one said you can not weld down hill. It is best though that if you have to ask about how to weld to not try down hill. Now if he could pass a 6G test like your crew well then he could try down hill. I will even go as far to say I bet when your crew learned to weld they were taught up hill first.

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JMS/MN

06-28-2004 16:56:56




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
Can you use a loader to tip the trailer on the side and weld flat?



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Bob

06-28-2004 11:57:31




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
Hello, I do not mean this in a bad way, but good welding is like riding a bicycle. If you once knew how to weld uphill you should still know how to weld uphill. I cannot teach you how to weld uphill online or by emails. Using the right rod is critical. If you are welding something that could potentially have life threatening consequences (ie: welding on a trailer that carries a load on the highway), you are better off paying a welder that knows what he is doing and will take responsibility if the weld gives way or breaks. Would you want to risk potential injury or loss of life to someone to save a few dollars? Your friend should take the trailer to an experienced welder and have the job done properly. If you want to bring it to me, I will do it for you for free. Also, to anyone else reading this, just because you can afford a welder does not make you a GOOD welder. I do not mean this unkindly, but I have seen the results of poor workmanship and it CAN cost lives.

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KX

06-28-2004 11:40:51




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
NO OFFENSE....but....if you state you haven't welded for a while and you need these pockets to bind heavy things down on the trailer that you will be pulling on the highway....uh.....think it over, grab a friend that welds more often to bond these on your trailer solid. Pay someone who welds etc. It will be worth it if you never lose a load.



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Nick

06-28-2004 11:21:56




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
If its been a long time since you have stick welded I would recommend that you practice welding flat to start and then move on to vertical up. A fast-freeze rod such as 6010 or 6011 will work better than those such as 6013 or 7018 which have more slag to contend with as well.



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Coloken

06-28-2004 07:02:54




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 Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-28-2004 04:41:49  
Stick weld...weld down hill. Use proper rod, set proper heat and practice first. Then practice some more. A good helmet that you can watch the puddle with, helps.



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B B

06-28-2004 07:34:44




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 Re: Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to Coloken, 06-28-2004 07:02:54  
DON'T WELD DOWN HILL.



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john in la

06-28-2004 09:06:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to B B, 06-28-2004 07:34:44  
I will second that.

If you can not weld up hill very well do not even attempt to weld down hill.

I will step out here and allow the yesterday tractor welding instructor (T-BONE) explain how to weld uphill.



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T-Bone's tips (Chuck J)

06-28-2004 19:26:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to john in la, 06-28-2004 09:06:41  
I saved this and take absolutely no credit for any of it. T-bone is the man.

Chuck J

(Edited for content 01/25/04) Please update your file. Vertical up welding is fairly easy to do once you get the hang of it. Electrode angle pays a very important roll, about 5* to 10* down from horizontal, 0* works best sometimes, and you need your head below the rod to see the weld puddle with a close arc length and a slightly faster travel speed. Vertical down welds are allowed by AWS code and are limited to 2" in length on fillet welds but most welds fail when ran vertical down as it's very easy to trap slag with in the molten puddle. I only recommend very experienced welders use vertical down. Learn vertical up first! Now most welders watch the "slag" in the molten puddle and not the molten puddle it's self and that causes the molten puddle to fall or the weld puddle will slump before the welder moves the rod upward. Thats why we teach you to weld flat first so you can recognize the weld puddle from the slag. If you can see the difference in the weld puddle and the slag, then do not let the slag take your attention away from the molten puddle in the vertical position like it does to most welders. A vertical weave bead is made by starting a weld puddle then moving horizontal, 8 rod diameters max, then pause slightly to deposit more weld, move up 1/2 rod diameter, then back to the starting point. The horizontal move should be fairly fast so if the weld slumps in the center then your moving too slow. If the ends are under cut then your not pausing long enough at the corners. Take a scratch awl making two vertical lines will help you keep the weld straight and uniform width. The 8 times the rod diameter maximum is so the slag does not cool before you return to deposit more metal thus entrapping slag with-in the molten puddle. Use your arc length and travel speed to adjust for different welding positions. There is no need to adjust amps from flat welding to overhead welding to vertical welding. This is very important too learn for when welding in a 6G position. A 6G position is a pipe fixed at 45*. Which has more heat displaced content; 1) a long arc length, 2) a short arc length ?
A long arc length as the heat is spread over a wider area. This is why a short arc length is much easier to control the molten puddle. My method of teaching is to have the welder try to move too fast, too slow, long arc length, short arc length, rod angle at 45*, at 5*, too many amps, too low of amps, etc: and pay close attention to the changes each makes in the weld. I reverse teach, "what makes a bad weld". If you know what causes a bad weld then you will know how to correct it when you make that mistake. This is also where your plastic welding lens will fail you the most. You now have two weld puddles due to the distortion of the plastic lens. Which one is the true weld puddle? Use only a all glass lens. T_Bone

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Larry E

06-28-2004 20:04:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Any hints for welding uphill? in reply to T-Bone's tips (Chuck J), 06-28-2004 19:26:03  
Works good to use figure J or U in manipulating your rod.



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