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250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc current or

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dtanner

06-20-2004 22:00:17

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Howdy, I'm going to install a mighty mule gate opener 250 ft from my electricity. It is powered by a battery charged by a dc transformer. It would be cheaper to bury 12/2 with ground, 110 volt wire and plug in the transformer at the post. They suggest using 16 guage wire and run dc current the 250 ft. I have 16 guage wire but I would need to splice it to get the 250 ft. The instructions say splicing wire is not advised. Which wiring, ac or dc would be best. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, dtanner

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EEENG.

06-22-2004 21:31:18

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

Mighty Mule 12V Single-Gate Opener
Opens a single gate up to 12ft. long and 250lbs. without ever leaveing your car or truck. Easy to install, self-contained control arm-- no control box needed. Works on all types of gates (chain link, tube, ornamental and vinyl). Operates on low-voltage 12V battery connected to a transformer that plugs into a 110V AC outlet. Includes receiver and installation video. Requires 16-gauge dual conductor multi-stranded low voltage wore (not included) to connect transformer. UL listed U.S.A.

As everyone can see from the above post info is very ambiguous to the laymen. Without electronics background or knowledge would leave one to think it was just a simple transfromer, instead of a AC to DC converter. So buickandDeere and Ron both could be correct!!! EEEng.

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Ron

06-24-2004 04:15:36

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Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc cu in reply to EEENG. , 06-22-2004 21:31:18

Ambiguous to you, perfectly clear to everyone else. Maybe you could call MM and offer to work as a consulting engineer and get to the bottom of the great transformer mystery. Be sure to let us know what they say!

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dtanner

06-22-2004 21:30:14

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

I would like to thank everyone for your ideas and help. Several things I hadn't thought of have been mentioned. The 12 volt "transformer" is a small box that does need to be in a weather proof situation. I now have a better understanding of the instructions with the gate opener. Thanks again to all, dtanner

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glenshoe

06-22-2004 06:24:13

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

You're going to get plenty of opinions on this kind of question, some of which are questionable and some are based on downright ingnorance. Based on long-time reading of this forum, I've come to rely on responses from two notable individuals who really know what they're talking about: buickanddeere and T-Bone. They don't weigh in on a subject unless they can contribute substantively. Just my .02 worth. HTH, Glenn

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buickanddeere

06-23-2004 11:22:54

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Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc cu in reply to glenshoe, 06-22-2004 06:24:13

Thanks

Buickanddeere

P.S. my name is Glen as well.

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buickanddeere

06-21-2004 10:55:30

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

Pull two #12 copper lines in a conduit to the road gate, drive a local ground rod and a local water resistance disconnect. Plug the charger in, a GFI receptacle and a couple of motion sensor yard lights. Transformers usually are not considered to be able to transform DC. Only AC or pulsating DC.

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buickanddeere...nastey sp

06-23-2004 20:18:37

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Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc cu in reply to buickanddeere, 06-21-2004 10:55:30

Sorry, intended to say "water resistant" not "water resistance".

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Ron

06-22-2004 05:44:01

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Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc cu in reply to buickanddeere, 06-21-2004 10:55:30

Sorry, won't work.

MMs use a transformer like the man said. It converts 110VAC to 12VDC to operate the gate motor and charge the backup-up battery.

The transformer is mounted indoors and low-voltage cable is direct-buried from the transformer to the gate.

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buickanddeere

06-22-2004 06:04:15

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Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - d in reply to Ron, 06-22-2004 05:44:01

A transformer raises voltage and lowers current or raises current and lowers voltage of AC or pulsating DC electricity. If you can make just a transformer produce DC from
AC there is a lot of people who want to talk to you with cheque books in hand. What you are looking at is a transformer with a rectifier connected to the X1 & X2 terminals. Your knowledge of electricity rates right there with you understanding of basic physics and tire ballast. Class II power ( current limited and less than 48V) is usually used so the home tinkerer is less liable to start fires or kill themselves. Allows burial in a shallow trench and avoids some grounding issues. Sending 120V to the road gate and mounting the battery charger right at the battery allows the installation of lights along the laneway. Even a motion sensor light so there is less chance of unfamiliar people driving into the gate. Makes thieves and snoops nervous when lights come on when they approach too. Trenching right to the road, why not?

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Ron

06-22-2004 07:56:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener in reply to buickanddeere, 06-22-2004 06:04:15

Babble on son but MM sells you a transformer. Your lack of common sense might get someone hurt... the transformer goes INDOORS where it doesn't get wet.

Your lack of basic understanding of electricity, wiring, and the National Electrical Code are your own business but let's not try to get someone electrocuted here!

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buickanddeere

06-22-2004 08:44:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate op in reply to Ron, 06-22-2004 07:56:56

I'll show you my electricians ticket if you show me yours. You are just ticked off I pointed out some errors on your posts here and over ballasting tractors. The box that MM sells cannot be just a transformer. There has to be a something else in that box to limit current and rectify AC into DC to charge the battery. Any electricion knows, the owner has the option of running 120vac to the road gate. And putting the transformer in an enclosure. Cheap,safe and rust proof at any electrical wholesaler.And having 120v for lights and a GFI receptacle. Did you know what a class II circuit even was, until I introducing it here? It's used because the manufacture knows that sooner or later some home tinkerer will use a couple of strands of barbed wire fence from the shed to the gate to charge the battery.

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Ron

06-22-2004 10:36:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gat in reply to buickanddeere, 06-22-2004 08:44:12

Post your name and address so I can buy you a copy of "Wiring for Dummies".

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buickanddeere

06-22-2004 11:47:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule in reply to Ron, 06-22-2004 10:36:51

Certainly if you can read and understand these books.

www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?pid=7005SB&src=catalog

www.orderline.com/detail.asp?group=7

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Ron

06-22-2004 13:25:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty in reply to buickanddeere, 06-22-2004 11:47:23

I see. Someone already bought you a copy of "Wiring for Dummies" but you can't read. Sorry, can't help with that.

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buickanddeere

06-23-2004 20:24:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mig in reply to Ron, 06-22-2004 13:25:47

Ron, there are several solutions to powering this MM gate operator. Lets have dtanner decide if he wants 12V class II run to the road from the wall wart mounted in his house/garage/shed. Or if he wants the option of an 120V illuminated driveway entrance and a MM battery charger supply to intimidate the riff wraff and impress his neighbours,friends and family.

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Ron

06-24-2004 04:27:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 250 ft. to in reply to buickanddeere, 06-23-2004 20:24:58

Figure out how to get batteries in that flashlight yet so you can read that book when it shows up? BTW, don't worry about the COD. Just pay the guy!

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06-21-2004 10:17:27

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

I would go with the MM suggestion and run the 16 ga and DC. They are obviously not concerned about voltage drop. I suspect the current is in milliamps, not amps, so voltage drop would be minimal. As previously suggested, if you need to splice, buy a cheap soldering iron (if you don't have one) and solder the connection.

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get a solar panel

06-21-2004 10:17:23

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

I had a similar situation and put in a solar panel batter charger. Over the past 10 years I have replaced one battery and have never encountered a weak battery. No burried cable, no maintenance. I would do it exactly the same if I were to do it again.

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George

06-21-2004 10:36:54

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Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc cu in reply to get a solar panel, 06-21-2004 10:17:23

Using a solar panel should make the system a little less prone to damage from nearby lightning strikes.

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Noah W

06-21-2004 08:16:04

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

Here is a handy little tool to figure voltage drop.

Voltage drop calculator

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david - OR

06-21-2004 07:11:30

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

The transformer provided by Mighty Mule is probably not rated for outdoor use. If it is a "cube" type transformer plugged directly into a receptacle, then the receptacle won't be weatherproof either. (The 2002 NEC requires that receptacles in wet locations be water tight when in use.) You would have to put the receptacle and transformer in some sort of weathertight box out by the gate.

You could substitute 250 feet of 12/2 UF WG wire for the suggested 16 guage wire to run the DC charging current. Keep the transformer in the house. The current in the wire to the gate is only to charge the battery, not to operate the gate. Such a spool of wire costs about $50 at Home Depot.

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06-21-2004 06:33:23

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

if you run the 110v wire out the 250'... you need to consider the voltage drop over that distance. I don't have my tables handy, but my guess is that #12 wire won't carry much amperage over that distance... it would probably be OK for a low draw transformer, but if you were to use that outlet for any other purpose, I'd bet you would encounter problems! I'd either run heavier 110v cable, or the 12v DC line... seems to me that an undersized 110v line would just be a waste of money! FTIW

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Keith-OR

06-21-2004 21:49:31

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Re: Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc cu in reply to DL, 06-21-2004 06:33:23

Here is a calulator to figure out if your wire size and distance will work .

http://www.stanselectric.com/vdrop.html

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Ron

06-21-2004 04:03:15

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

I would follow Mighty Mule's instructions to the letter. 250' of 16 ga. wire costs less than a burger and fries. Do you really want it dig it all up and replace it?

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Charles (in GA)

06-21-2004 03:59:17

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

Since is it only a charger line, there is little draw going thru the DC cable if you were to run it the long run, or for that matter, not much draw on the 110 either.

You could splice the 16 gauge with no loss in the joint if you soldered the joint and used a heat shrink with sealant to make the joint waterproof.

12/2 w/Ground UF isn't cheap. Of course, having a 110 outlet at the gate might be nice, plugging in christmas lights, etc, which are low draw items.

Charles

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TGIN

06-21-2004 04:00:03

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

Run the 110 out there then you have it there to plug other things in when/if needed .

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Bob

06-20-2004 23:28:29

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Re: 250 ft. to Mighty Mule gate opener - dc curren in reply to dtanner, 06-20-2004 22:00:17

110 volt AC with 12 gauge wire suitable for burial will make the trip more easily than low voltage DC though 16 gauge wire.

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