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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

How big a generator to run a home?

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Dieselrider

06-19-2004 09:19:03




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If you were to install a generator and switch gear as a back up to run a 100 amp service, what size do you need? Would a 15 kw generator work or 20 kw or bigger? I,m talking lights, furnace, refrigerator, freezer. Gas stove and water heater so they are not a concern. I know some of you have probably dug into this kind of information before. Thanks for the feedback.




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JerryU

06-21-2004 05:10:39




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
One more thing--check your natural gas meter for capacity and pressure, most are too small to handle much over a 6kw generator and you will have to get the gas company to come out and change out the meter and regulator. I am told this can run into some bucks.

JU



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buickanddeere

06-20-2004 11:27:21




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Why all the interest in automatic transfer switches? The manual unit on the power pole built into the meter base is cheap and easy. Link



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David in MD

06-20-2004 03:10:40




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
I went the generator on the cheap route by buying a used 15 kw pto generator which I can run with a tractor that I already had. This will run about 60 amps of load. I used a Square D generator interlock which for about $50 makes my connection legal. Interlocks are available for Square D QO and Homeline panels. With this setup you backfeed through a breaker in your main panel. The interlock prevents the main disconnect and the backfed breaker from both being on at the same time. I can select which circuits I want to power by flipping breakers. My local electrical inspector and utility are satisfied.

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T_Bone

06-19-2004 21:58:35




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Hi Dieselrider,

I guess if you were in a high outage area or a storm area then it would be of benifit.

Most utilitys accross the country will not allow the use of a manual disconect switch as they want to make sure there lines are not charged when they send out there repairmen. AS stated the auto disconects are expensive. Here in AZ it's a $10k fine if you get caught with charging a utility line, and jail time if it hurts a lineman.

My neighbor set up a China diesel 17kw genset with auto disconnect. I believe his total cost was $15k with him doing the labor. It was $8k for the genset plus $2k spare parts delivered. The auto disconect switch was $1200. The rest was misc install parts with permits and Utility inspection.

We lost power for 5hrs total last year and 5hrs this year so far, about 10hrs total this year if it's a typical year.

A small gentset with extensions cords is more cost effective for us as it doesn't require permits or the install costs. That said we lost a side x side with a full freezer last year when we went elk hunting. We had a brown out that flipped the main breaker. What a mess to come home too as it had been off for 2wks. Cost about $1000 to replace the freezer (odor) and meat.

T_Bone

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Charles (in GA)

06-19-2004 20:01:14




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Automatic transfer switches are EXPENSIVE and probably not worth it unless you are gone alot and you have family at home, then its peace of mind. Otherwise, you can do the change over yourself when the power fails. Manual change over switches are lots cheaper. You should use one of some sort so you don't accidently put power into the power company lines by failing to pull your main, etc.

Don't forget your high draw necessities such as the well pump if you are on a well.

If your power outages are generally short in duration, you could live with a smaller unit and forgo some lof the lights, and other extras, but buy the biggest you can afford. As others have noted, they last longer and run better and consume lots less fuel if not loaded up all the time.

Charles

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RZ(WA)

06-19-2004 18:54:11




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Just curious, what is going to power your genset ?



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Dieselrider

06-19-2004 16:27:46




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Thanks guys for the responses. What I'm thinking of doing (when I can afford) is to get a natural gas run unit as we have gas on the property. What I'd like is to have it set up to fire up and take over in the event of a power outage. I want to do it right though so there is no chance of causing someone to get hurt. Thanks for the help.



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buickanddeere

06-19-2004 13:32:05




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Do you have access to a tractor and is there a transfer switch installed on the hydro service? A 15KW generator on a 50HP tractor will start loads that a 15KW genset with a 25-30HP engine won't. We put the 30KW on the 2355 and just throw the switch. Makes her bark but starts the well pump, electric hot water heater, barn fans, appliances just fine similtaniously. Most engines are most efficient when loaded to 90-100% of full capacity. That's one of the reasons why remote power applications use 3 or 4 gens sets rather than 1 or 2. They can keep the generators at closer to full load by adding or subracting them form the local grid.

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Ron

06-19-2004 12:46:11




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
The other methods won't work. The reason is that many motors use 2-3 times the starting current they do to run. www.northerntool.com and other generator sites have charts for this.

When you wire your switch, the first breaker in the switch should be the highest starting current draw and then down to the lowest. You then throw switch #1 first, wait a few seconds, then the others in order. Automatic switches can be set to do this.

Do take their advice about getting a larger unit than you need. You will forget lots of loads and need some growth room anyway. Examples: a battery charger, lights in the area where the genset will be, TV, SAT, etc. Also, if you run gensets at less than about 75% of their capacity, they burn lots less fuel and last a lot longer.

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ScottP

06-19-2004 09:57:36




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
Dieselrider
The first thing you have to figure is how many amps you are actually drawing off of your 100 amp service. The best way to do this is with an amp clamp. Turn on everything that can or that you want to run at the same time and then take a reading on both legs at you service panel. Combine these figures and then add about 10%.
Take this figure and times it by 220 and this will give you the watts needed to run your house. Then buy the next size up genset. When you go looking for a genset remember the old saying "you get what you pay for". Don't go cheap!
Look into gas drive welders with an Onan engine. You can buy a welder for about half the price of a straight genset with an Onan. Or get one with a deisel engine if you wish. I set my Miller ledgen up on propane and have over 50 thousand hours on it.
Sorry this is so long.
Scott

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Bob

06-19-2004 09:46:58




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 Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Dieselrider, 06-19-2004 09:19:03  
A 100 amp service is 24KW, so if you wanted to fully power it up, that's what you'd need.

However, for the loads you mention, a 15KW unit should be more than adequate. 4 - 8KW should power the furnace, refrigerator, and freezer, leaving the rest of the 15KW for lights and reserve capacity when on of the appliance motors starts.



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pg

06-19-2004 17:54:13




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 Re: Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to Bob, 06-19-2004 09:46:58  
they make generators that run on your home tank propane and off your natural gas service. they are tied in electrically to your home breaker box. when the power goes off, this senses the loss and kicks on your generator. expensive but works great. lots of places sell them. pg



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Dave700 (GA)

06-23-2004 11:28:20




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 Re: Re: Re: How big a generator to run a home? in reply to pg, 06-19-2004 17:54:13  
It will take 5-10Kw for a typical house. As some pointed out look on the label on the motors for the air conditioner, refrigerator etc. The starting current can be quite high compared to the running current. Also read the spec sheet on the generator. Two things 1. What peak can it handle (startup currents) 2. What is the actually continous whattage.
For example a 10KW generator might handle start ups of 12Kw to 14KW or maybe only 10KW, The continuous output may only be 7KW to 9KW.

Usually you get what you pay for look at the specs carefully.

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