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Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper )

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Dale Powell

09-30-2000 21:32:31




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What is the problem in using engine oil in an air compressor pump ? And how much damage is occuring to the Bendix Tuflo comp. on my Cat powered LNT 8000 ford truck, where the comp. is pressure fed from the engine oil pump ? Hmmmmm m




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Roger Prosper

10-04-2000 21:55:00




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 Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to Dale Powell, 09-30-2000 21:32:31  
Hi:

Sorry, i've been away for awhile. In my experience, motor oil has ALWAYS caused problems. I remember having to resort to a ball peen hammer to get the valves out of a Quincy 325 because it had been run on the same 15W40 they were running their Detroits on. Someone mentioned non-detergent oil. Bingo! All those nice additives that do wonderful things like cleaning soot and varnish out of your engine stay behind when the oil that gets past the rings burns off in the cylinder head or on the valve plates. Engine oil, like oilless compressors, I am sure has been used by some people with good results. It would be an exception in my experience. I admire a once a month service routine. Extremely rare. I could often recognize a DeVilbiss by smell when I tore it open because virtually all of them had the same oil in them that they left the factory with. One was built in 1959! Usually, the compressor is put out of sight and out of mind and only gets attention when the belts start squealing. I have been forced to work on a DeVilbiss 432 that was hanging from a ceiling on a wooden platform, suspended by four ready rods. Or should I say, four ready rods per corner, held together with coupling nuts. Seemes they removed the mezzanine it was on, but decided to keep the compressor where it was. How much service do you think that one got!

Air brake compressors are usually the worst ones for wear ridges at the top of the liners too. First compressor I ever rebuilt was a Midland 1500 (?). Most of them came off the v12 Detroits used here in the oilfield. Virtually all of them had clogged heads due to carbon fouling. As you would expect, worn rings aggravate the problem immensely. You are kind of out of luck when the compressor is tied into the engine oil circuit. If you have a Bendix with its own internal oil supply and pump, I would strongly recommend using compressor oil.

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ltf in nc

10-01-2000 14:12:44




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 Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to Dale Powell, 09-30-2000 21:32:31  
Using engine oil in a compressor has multiple shortcomings. Motor oil and moisture can be a major problem particularly when the compressor is used occasionally. Additionally, the oil that escapes the rings will accumulate on the valves and in a compressor this can become carbon deposits. Most piston compressors are serviced for this single fault. Since you have a choice and the crankcase holds very little oil its seems foolish not to use synthetic as it eliminates these faults. As for your truck, things are not quite the same. The compressor doesn't run that much. When it does the engine heat is keeping the moisture driven from the oil. The oil is filtered and the crankcase capacity is 5+ times that of a shop air compressor and the oil temperature is controlled by the engine cooling. You also are probably more likely to change the engine oil on a set routine as to remembering when was the last time you changed the oil in the shop air compressor.

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Dale

10-02-2000 21:22:36




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 Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to ltf in nc, 10-01-2000 14:12:44  
Well, the air brake compressor, of course runs as long as the engine is turning as it is belt driven from the crank pully. Other than that, there is some logic to what you say. Back to the "correct compressor oil" You mention that the major cause of compressor failure is carboned or stuck/sticky valves. Presumably most people are using compressor oil, therefor wouldn't that oil be at the root of this problem ?? Using modern engine oil , which keeps contaminants in suspension, ( condensation, carbon particles, etc ) prevent these buildups on the valves ?? I say all this due to my personal experience, with plain old cheap Speedaire type comp's All I've ever used in the 3 I service is engine oil. None are used more than 20 hrs a week , and the oil is only changed maybe once a year. After ten years There have been no failures of any kind. ( One of the electric motors needed bearings however ) I think it is perfectly safe to use engine oil for this purpose !!

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ltf in nc postscript

10-03-2000 08:23:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to Dale, 10-02-2000 21:22:36  
I forgot to mention that the air brake compressor is NOT pumping all the time. It runs unloaded most of the time and is not making the heat from compression during the unloaded cycle.



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ltf in nc

10-03-2000 08:19:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to Dale, 10-02-2000 21:22:36  
The carbon build up on the valves comes from the heat burning the petroleum base oil to the valves. The synthetic oil can withstand the heat much better. If you want to run motor oil feel free to make yourself happy. IF you want to run a compressor in a true work environment and get longivity out of it go with synthetic. A forty hour workweek is twiced the run time that you are putting on the machines you are referencing. Was the motor that you had to replace the bearing in a direct drive or a v belt drive compressor?

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Dale - Post script

10-03-2000 21:47:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to ltf in nc, 10-03-2000 08:19:56  
These compressors are all flat belt driven multigroove , like modern automotive belts. All this actually is about convienience , as motor oil is always in the shop and available , as opposed to getting in the truck and driving ten miles to the compressor store and buying their oil . Maybe next time I'll try some , but I can't post the results for ten years !!!!



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Frank

10-01-2000 17:59:11




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 Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to ltf in nc, 10-01-2000 14:12:44  
At the place I used to work, they had a 2 stage cast iron compressor in the tire shop. I worked there for 20 years and never had a minutes trouble out of the pump. We ran Mystic 30 wt. ENGINE oil in it. I was the one that did the maintenence on it. I changed oil the first of every month. As I said the pump gave us no trouble at all but I remember at least 3 times we had to change the electric motor.

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ltf in nc

10-01-2000 19:03:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to Frank, 10-01-2000 17:59:11  
Frank, I do not doubt your statements one bit. Your company was fortunate to have someone like yourself to change the oil frequently. How many places do you know that have such a routine today? Most tire companies cannot even access the air compressor for the debris in the way. Secondly, you stated that you serviced the compressor for a 20 year period. These old cast iron units were built for dependability. Do you remember the sound of it running? You could almost count the strokes because these units ran at a much slower speed than today's junk. The bean counters at the cooperate office were not running the engineering dept. back then and the engineers were able to send a unit out the door that would truly deliver 4 cfm per HP. Today's compressors need all the help they can muster since they are under engineered, over revved and under cooled and poorly assembled to deliver low capacity to the uninformed public. Definitely a case for "let the buyer beware"

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Jon Hagen

10-01-2000 22:25:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to ltf in nc, 10-01-2000 19:03:27  
For what it's worth, for 20 years I have used Mobil 1 synthetic 5W 30 and for the last few years 0W30 in my old shop compressor.I went to the synthetic oil because this compressor is always plugged in and has to start at temp's as low as - 30. I change the oil once per year and the drain oil never shows any white foam or other signs of water. We are in a dry cold climate and the compressor is 1968 vintage with slow turning cast iron, belt drive compressor.

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jimmyzz

10-01-2000 23:06:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Air Comp Oil ( for R. Prosper ) in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-01-2000 22:25:36  
use 30 W non detergent oil. i ran about 25 big (10hp or more) compressors on it at hard duty cycle with good results.



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