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voltage variation

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Don from Texas

05-09-2004 19:34:24




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I am getting 138 volts on one leg and 107 on the other going into house,also getting same at shop which is fed from same main disconnect, but under different breakers. Power company has checked voltage to meter at 125 volts per leg.Am at wits end.Light contnually flickering when icebox or freezer come on.Have checked grounds, what else?




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MAC,IL

05-10-2004 15:01:44




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
No 1 son lives out in the wilderness, he had a similar problem, kept on the power co, eventually they replaced a transformer and got it corrected.
Sometime these outfits like to give you the run around.



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John K

05-10-2004 08:29:35




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
You did not mention wheather it is an overhead line or direct burial line. Yes you do have a loose or corroded neutral connection. If it is a cable buried under ground you could have some magor problems. I'm an electrican and had to replace my own underground cable feeding to my house. Meter is on the house but was getting 145 volts on one leg and 95 on the other leg depending of which load kicked in. Turned out that the city used USEB cable that didn't have an outer sheath. It took about 15 years before the spiral neutral conductors simply corroded away leaving very little of the neutral for the return path. Remember that the neutral carries the differance of the current between the two hots. If A phase has 20 amps and B phase hase 15 amps, the neutral will have 5 amps. Because A phase has a 20 amp load it has less resistance than the load on B phase, that is why you get a voltage jump on B phase if the neutral return return line is bad. This only applies to 120 volt equip, as 240 volt equip will not usually have a neurtal. Hope that this helps.

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buickanddeere

05-10-2004 05:35:31




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
As previously stated it's a high reisitance or open neutral. This is getting to the stage where suspecting an open neutral and all the unbalanced current is comming back on the earth ground rod via the ground/neutral bond at the distribution panel. Also is previously stated the "tingle" voltage issue shocking livestock is a huge and relatively unknown problem. Causing all sorts of mystery ailments/stress in livestock. Home tinkers wiring 120v motors to ground instead of neutral, bonding grounds and neutrals at pony panels, combining ground & neutral on extension cords etc all cause troubles. Yes the variations of two phase power is pretty spooky. Some old saw mills and powerplants still use it.There are some strange tapped delta secondary systems out there too.

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Bus Driver

05-10-2004 04:50:34




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
Jake is on target here. The problem is called a loose neutral. It is at the panel from which the circuit originates, the main panel (if there is more than one panel), the meter, or at the transformer. It could theoretically be in the cable from the transformer to the meter, the meter to the panel, but I have never seen that happen.



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Jake

05-10-2004 03:05:55




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
Check your neutral line



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Wayne

05-09-2004 23:55:10




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
Hey Don, sounds like your having the same type of problem we had several years back with the power going to our shop. We had low voltage on both legs of the 240 as well as about a 5 volt difference between the legs. It was driving me nuts when I tried to weld because the welder wouldn't act right to save it. Ours had always had some variation that was noticible in the welder just due to normal load changes in the mainline, but this was different. They tested ours with several different devices and even had one that ran a week long test 24/7, and they never really could find what they considered a "justifiable" reason for the drop or the difference. The only thing they did find was that the main line had been run about 3/4 of the way to the shop with 4/0 and then jointed and dropped down a size for the rest of the run. They finally decided that there must be a bad connection at the joint from oxidation or whatever and that was causing the problem. Long story short, they wound up changing out the main line from the transformer to the shop. They stepped it up one size and made all three legs as solid pulls with no joints, and that took care of the problem.

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jeff

05-09-2004 23:15:20




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
This is BS and the power company knows it. They must check it at your ends of the line and don't stand for that"we only supply to the meter" K-ap!
Single phase should show 208 or 240 with the legs at 110 or 120. This is the way it is bunky. If it ain't copper then O BOY! I have seen bad blocks in fuse boxes, bad Bug connections on the lines, corrosion where you wouldn't want to know! One big one is a K-ap ground for your neutral and ground. This is VERY bad on a dairy farm cause it feeds back through the cows when they get milked. Production goes right in the toilet! At your local elctical supply type place get the longest and PURE COPPER ground rod you can bang in to the ground and hook it up with a nice big copper wire to the ground strip in your fuse box. Don't trust the cold water pipes for ground! If this doesn't balance your system then you are gonna need some outdoor rewire. The worst I ever saw was a 220 three phase system where a couple of cooling motors were toasted but the rest of the machine was fine. I measured it out with a meter and found I had 220 -220 -440! The transformer on the pole had an internal short! To see how good your local power company sparkey guy is ....ask him if he has ever worked on two phase. If he says there is no such thing , kick him in the butt and tell the power company to send some one with some brains. There IS TWO phase and it uses four or five wires. VERY STRANGE stuff. In South Philly; that is South Philladelphia, PA folks, They have un balanced service. This will show 208- 208- 256 and that "HIGH" leg is NORMAL!! I had a real good day , can you tell ? Jeff
PS I hope this was helpful! You should see some of the stuff I deal with down in the casinos in Atlantic City. The power plant is only about 10 blocks away and the power will drop far enough so that the 5 volt signal line in the fire alarm systems go to a little over one volt. Do you know how many time the fire trucks can show up at your door in just one eight hour shift?

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RandyB

05-09-2004 19:55:28




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
When they checked voltage at meter was the meter pulled? If so then you would have no load and voltage would be correct. You have a poor connection in the neutral line some where between main and transformer. That aluminum is a real suspect.



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Corrosion..John,PA

05-09-2004 19:38:57




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 Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:34:24  
I would suspect that the SE Aluminum cable that runs from the meter to your Main Breaker box is probably a little corroded or loose in the Main Breaker Box.

You might try tightening the lugs on the entrance cable where it attached to your main breaker box. Also tighten the wires on each breaker. Annual maintenance.

CAREFUL WITH THE LIVE WIRES!!!!! !!!!



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Don from Texas

05-09-2004 19:47:47




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 Re: Re: voltage variation in reply to Corrosion..John,PA, 05-09-2004 19:38:57  
Have tightened grounds. Sometime voltage goes normal for two or three days and then back to variation. This is not after tighting anything, just happens.



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larry in tn

05-10-2004 19:05:16




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 Re: Re: Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:47:47  
I agree with the bad neutral advice. one source of this problem that I find pretty often is the use of split-bolt connectors that were in commonn use some years back. They are prone to loosen over a period of time. They were generally used at the weatherhead/service entrance. If such is your case, have the power company replace them with the crimp-on type that are now required by the national electrical code. Also have them check your service to transformer connections.
larry

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Gary Schafer

05-10-2004 18:26:22




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 Re: Re: Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:47:47  
It is not going to be your ground lugs. It will most likely be your neutral connection somewhere. Yours or the power company.

You need to check the voltage at your main panel between each hot leg and neutral where it comes into your panel. If you see any difference on either side to neutral then the power company has to check further.
It is their problem. Well it could be the connections between the meter and your panel but you need them to open the meter can to check in there.

I had a bad connection at the pole and it caused noise on the line. Would keep tripping the ups supply on the computer. Sometimes it would not do it for days and then again it would do it every few minutes.

One guy from the power company was out and measured the voltage and said nothing was wrong. I called them again and told the guy to check the connections up on the pole. I told him that one of the connections was changed a year or so before and the guy that did it said that the others would need to be changed but he didn't have time to do it then. He changed the other two and problem solved. The first time it happened it was one of the hot legs that I lost partially. True story.

Like some of the others said, I would bet that you have a poor neutral connection. They can be intermittent.

A poor ground connection will have nothing to do with the problem. Adding more ground rods will not fix the problem.

Actually if you hook a meter between your panel ground and a different ground connection than where the panel is grounded I will bet that you will see some voltage when things are acting up. Ground and neutral should be connected together in your main panel. Unless you have a very good ground system on your panel, most ground connections are not all that great. With your neutral open or partially open it will energize your ground lead as the current tries to get back to the power company ground at their poles.

However if the poor neutral connection is at the transformer before it is grounded at the pole then you will see no difference in your ground voltage.

Regards
Gary

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DL

05-10-2004 06:45:41




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 Re: Re: Re: voltage variation in reply to Don from Texas, 05-09-2004 19:47:47  
had a similar problem a few years ago... ended up being a bad (neutral) connection at the weather head, where the line from the pole joined the cable going to the meter. Have the power service guy come out and check EVERY connection from the transformer to your meter... my guess is that one is bad somewhere along the way!



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