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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

How to figure the CFM of a air compressor

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vern

04-29-2004 18:50:17




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How do you figure the cfm's of an air compressor?
The compressor can build l60# of pressure in 5min
15 seconds. It has a 70 gallon tank, 5 hp motor, 2 stage compressor. It reaches 100# in about 3 minutes. Im just wondering if there is anyone that can figure this out. Most of this size are about 20 cfm not sure. Thank you for any information.




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Robert

04-30-2004 14:31:33




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 Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compressor in reply to vern, 04-29-2004 18:50:17  
The guy who services our plant air compressor tells me that 4.5 cfm/per hp @100 psi is a pretty good "guesstimate". He's been in the compressor business a long time, so I suppose he knows what he's talking about.



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Rod (NH)

04-29-2004 21:02:46




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 Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compressor in reply to vern, 04-29-2004 18:50:17  
Hi Vern,

Here's a method published by Ingersol Rand on estimating compressor capacity based on tank pump up time. It's a pdf file. Just be sure to use absolute pressures (gage pressure+14.7) when using the method.

For your particular case, I would run the calculation between 100 psig and 160 psig to get a better idea of the capacity at useful pressures. The reason is that the capacity will always drop off slightly as the discharge pressure increases. The somewhat higher capacity at 40 or 50 psig and less is not particularly helpful in most cases. If you run it from tank empty to 160 psig, you will be getting the average overall that includes the higher capacity in that lower pressure area.

third party image Rod

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Ryan

04-29-2004 23:26:04




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 Re: Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compressor in reply to Rod (NH), 04-29-2004 21:02:46  
Rod, You wouldn't happen to know how to convert back the other way would you? I have a compressor that is rated at 0 psi (560cfm). Any ideas how this translates at a working pressure (110?). I haven't gotten the thing going yet and I am wondering if I would need auxillary air or if I can run direct for sanding.


Ryan



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Rod (NH)

04-30-2004 07:32:00




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 Re: Re: Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compres in reply to Ryan, 04-29-2004 23:26:04  
Hi Ryan,

Kind of unusual to have one rated at 0 psig (free delivery). That's a good sized compressor. I am assuming an engine driven tow behind?

I also assume that it is a reciprocating machine perhaps without any significant storage tank that you could utilize for a pump up test. The reason that recips have a higher air delivery at lower pressures is due to the variation of volumetric efficiency with discharge pressure. It decreases with increasing pressure. That's the reason you see many smaller compressors rated at xxcfm@40psi and yycfm@90psi. The rating at 40 will always be a little higher than the one at 90. This characteristic is more pronounced with single stage than with multi-stage compressors.

My guess (only a guess) would be that your compressor (probably single stage) would deliver around 500 or so cfm at 110psig if it is rated at 560cfm@zero. If it's a two stage, then you should expect better than 500. There are a number of variables so without a specific manufacturer's rating or some kind of test, it is only approximate to estimate the capacity at different pressures. You know the general trend but not all the specifics. That's some sanding job you got there if you need that much air :o).

third party image Rod

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Ryan

04-30-2004 19:45:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How to figure the CFM of a air com in reply to Rod (NH), 04-30-2004 07:32:00  
The compressor is of the semi-radial type (Joy)according to a book I have. It is enclosed in a building on rails that we moved. I could send you pictures if you like. I need to get a cooling system and fuel system functioning as well as figure out some plumbing for the air side of it. The engine is the reason I became intersted in it to began. I like the MM tractors and this is powered by an 800. I am new to the sanding but I enjoy it. I plan on doing a bunch of wheels this summer. I am currently using a gardner denvers screw type powered by a 471 detroit. It supplies enough air, but I do not know what it is rated at. My goal for late summer is get the MM rig running. Thank you for the explanation on the ratings. Does volmetric efficiency follow any kind of set function (linear, geometric, etc?)

Ryan

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Rod (NH)

05-01-2004 06:09:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How to figure the CFM of a air in reply to Ryan, 04-30-2004 19:45:07  
Ryan,

Forget volumetric efficiency. I assumed that you were talking a recriprocating machine. You apparently have a centrifugal compressor...Joy is a major manufacturer of such machines. Centrifugals and screws operate on entirely diffferent principles than recips. The term volumetric efficiency is, as far as I know, only appropriate for recips. It is a function primarily of the cylinder clearance volume, the compression ratio and some other ill-defined variables such as internal leakage, valve pressure drop, etc. I am not familiar with the technical details of centrifugals and screws so I can't help you out much there. What little I know of centrifugals is that they require rather complex capacity controls to maintain stability and that the constant speed capacity (cfm) can drop off quite dramatically with increasing discharge pressure.

If you are just curious on the volumetric efficiency (VE) of recips, here's the formula:

VE = 100 - c [r^(1/k) - 1] - L

VE in percent
c = cylinder clearance volume % = total vol minus piston displacement
r = compression ratio - varies with discharge pressure
k = ratio of specific heats, generally taken as 1.4 for air
L = "fudge factor" percentage to account for the ill-defined variables noted above

Once you define a number for the VE, you get the compressor capacity by the following (recip only):

CFM = PD x RPM x VE

PD = piston displacement (single stage = total disp, multi stage = 1st stage disp only)

It is generally best to use the manufacturer's rating point(s) and talk only in generalities and "estimates" when you get away from those data points. Of course there is no substitute for actual test data over a wide range of operation. Unlike with recips though, manufacturers usually publish entire performance curves over the stable capacity range for centrifugals. You would really need to have such specific performance curve(s) for the machine to get a decent handle on the numbers involved. You should be able to get something from Joy, given the nameplate data...at least catalog predicted performance if not actual certified performance.

third party image Rod

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Larry Entenman

04-29-2004 18:58:22




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 Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compressor in reply to vern, 04-29-2004 18:50:17  
You need book or call the dealer or manufacture with model #.



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vern

04-29-2004 19:17:08




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 Re: Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compressor in reply to Larry Entenman, 04-29-2004 18:58:22  
It is a Westinghouse horz. air compressor, the company is no longer in business. No manual. It is a 3YC model. I wish I could call the company.
It has a 5 HP with 4 belts to drive the compressor. The large cylinder is about 5" and the small one is about 2 3/4". Thank you again.



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Roger

04-29-2004 20:29:36




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 Re: Re: Re: How to figure the CFM of a air compres in reply to vern, 04-29-2004 19:17:08  
Should do about 18 - 20 cfm @ 100 psi under ideal conditions.

3Yc, like all Westinghouse compressors, is a very tough machine. It doesn't look like it, but it is pressure lubricated by a plunger pump off the center of the crankshaft.



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