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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT - Concrete Slab question

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John A (TX)

04-19-2004 10:30:21

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Have a question on how much rebar to use.

Will soon be pouring a 24x24 slab for vehicle parking. Am planning on 4-5" thickness which I'm told is pretty standard for driveways here in central TX (no frost line issues). Base is sugar sand. I've got a deeper footing formed-in on the "drive on" side.

If I space the 3/8" rebar on 2' centers, will I be ok? Or do I really need to put the rebar closer together? I realize more is better in this case but just wondering if the 2' spacing will do the job.

Comments, suggestions will be appreciated.

~ja

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Hayman

04-20-2004 09:01:01

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

i don,t like rolls of mesh-too hard to get flat so I buy the 7'x10' sheets - it's fast and good. Make sure the mesh is not laying on the ground under the pour.I can also get fibre mesh put in the concrete for signifigantly more strength but is hard to get a real mirror finish.Fibremesh are fibres about 11/2" long and are added at the batch plant.It sure is a lot harder to hammer a hole thru fibre cocrete.Also order a good strong mix - 3000 p.s.i. is good.

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Robert

04-20-2004 05:59:36

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

I've been watching the responses to your question, because I'm going to do my "big pour" this Saturday, if the weather will cooperate. It's a 20'x30' slab, and I decided to go with rebar, too. My place is also sugar sand (Lee County) but, I don't anticipate any problems with cracking. The sand packs pretty firm when it's moist, which it is right now, I'm using a moisture barrier, and the concrete mix I'm going to use routinely tests out at 7,000 psi+ after 28 days.
One of the gretaest favors you can do for your slab, is to cover it after it's been poured and finished, retaining the water, and let the concrete cure on it's own (not "air dry"). You will end up with a much stronger slab that way.
Just my .02 worth.

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John A (TX)

04-20-2004 06:37:03

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to Robert, 04-20-2004 05:59:36

Robert, looks like you're just down the road from me if you're in Lee Co. I'm just north of the Brazos/Robertson county line.

Hope the rain holds off for you this Sat. They're talking around a 30% chance here.

Sounds like we're going about it pretty much the same way. I'm using a moisture barrier, too, in case I ever want to close it in. Also agree with you on covering it while it cures. Am planning on just spreading out some old hay & then wetting it down.

One question, though: What spacing are you using on your rebar?

Thx
~ja

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JerryU

04-20-2004 05:02:25

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

Couple of related questions: I am going to pour a floor in a 30X40 pole barn that occasionally floods because it is a little below grade. I am putting a trench drain to a sump across the door which is on the 30' face and want to slope the slab to the front of the barn to drain any water that would come in in a massive rain. What pitch? 1/8" per foot or 1/4" per foot? A 10" slope on a 40' slab seems kind of severe. Any thoughts?

Also, (live in MI) what about vapor barrier under the slab?

Thanks,

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txblu

04-20-2004 05:52:40

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to JerryU, 04-20-2004 05:02:25

Read my comments about vapor barrier below. 1/4 inch/ft is for septic systems so the liquids don't run off from the solids. On a large building it is a pretty good slope (10" if my arithmetic is correct)across the 40' dimension. That says one side of your building (or the floor) is 10" lower than the other. I doubt you want that.

It doesn't take much slope for water to run off; since it seeks it's own level, you really only need one molecule's worth of drop for it to eventually run off. The question therefore is, how fast do you want it off and how much droop will you tolerate.

txblu

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Rauville

04-20-2004 03:11:31

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

We have had two 36 x 60 pole barn type buildings put up within a couple years of each other. The first one the building contractor provided the concrete work and used 6x6 #10 mesh on half brick chairs. The other building we did the concrete work ourselves with help using #3 bar @ 24"o.c. w/ plastic stands, and wire ties. We then provided saw cuts at 10' to 12'o.c. both ways. The building with the mesh has so many cracks, we have already replaced a portion of concrete. The building with the rebar shows no cracking!

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txblu

04-20-2004 05:46:38

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to Rauville, 04-20-2004 03:11:31

My point exactly. I hate mesh!!!!! !

Besides it doesn't like laying flat like rebar does.

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John A

04-19-2004 20:34:13

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

John A (TX).....Since you are over in the Heart of AggieLand, I suggest adding concret mesh to help keep it from cracking. Judgeing from the size of the slab I am guessing that some time it may be enclosed. So the little extra that a roll of mesh will cost will save you aggervation later.
Getting those trucks out to one place cost too much to short change youself on concrete steel.
Hope this helps,
John A.

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T_Bone

04-19-2004 20:16:03

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

Hi John,

send me a e-mail as I lost yours.

T_Bone

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Matt S.

04-19-2004 18:54:27

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

Rebar is designed to resist sheer forces. I don't see any reason to include it in your specific application. I would think mesh is the ideal reinforcement for you. Just make sure it's only 1 inch above the sand or gravel base held up with the appropriate clips.

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txblu

04-19-2004 15:31:39

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

John, this is your Texas buddy Mark.

Sand seeks it's own level. It is your best underlayment, if not in a quagmire. I live north of you on blackland clay. Moisture problems with clay are much more severe than on sand. Regardless, I hate mesh. Do your rebar thing as stated and be sure to put it on plastic supports so that when they pour the slab the rebar is in the concrete, not under it. Here, with my soil movement I would do as you are doing but on 12" centers. I hate, no I abhor cracked concrete and rebar keeps it together.

Hang in there buddy.

Mark

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John A (TX)

04-20-2004 06:51:19

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to txblu, 04-19-2004 15:31:39

Thanks for the replies, Mark. Your comments - and Rauville's - on using remesh were interesting in light of a conversation I had with a concrete finisher here. He said he absolutely would not guarantee his work if remesh is used but guarantees it 100% if rebar is used. That's what initially swayed me away from remesh, but then I got to second-guessing myself. Glad y'all set me straight again!

And, yep, I'm using the little plastic "chairs" to lift it off the ground and also have a moisture barrier in place.

Thanks again and, by the way, where are you located? My email should be visible if you want to make a note of it.

~ja

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RayNC

04-19-2004 13:59:30

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

John
Here in NC I watch them pour concrete drives and slabs all day, (I'm in the construction trade just not the concrete end of it)All they use here is the 6x6 reinforcing mesh. They just roll it out and lift it off the bottom about half way I would guess, with stones. These drives are formed with 2x4's and dug in a little so I think they are at least 4 inches and more deep. Hope this helps'

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James in North Carolina

04-19-2004 18:40:12

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to RayNC, 04-19-2004 13:59:30

Hey Ray...where in NC are you? I'm in Southern Pines area and am looking to have a slab poured this summer possibly. Any recommendations for good concrete folks in this area?

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RayNc

04-20-2004 15:23:06

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Re: Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to James in North Carolina, 04-19-2004 18:40:12

James
I'm in the Wilmington area and sorry but I don't know anyone out there in your neck of the woods.

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James in North Carolina

04-20-2004 18:31:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to RayNc, 04-20-2004 15:23:06

area you're in. We spend 2 or 3 weeks a year down your way. You keeping up with the squabble over Ft. Fisher State Park? James

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John A (TX)

04-19-2004 14:07:06

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to RayNC, 04-19-2004 13:59:30

Ray - Thanks for the reply. On the remesh, I'd thought about using that instead of rebar. Now, I kinda wish I had. Talked myself out of it for some reason. :-(

Thanks again ..
~ja

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txblu

04-20-2004 05:54:07

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Re: Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 14:07:06

Smart man you are!

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VADAVE

04-19-2004 11:47:52

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Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to John A (TX), 04-19-2004 10:30:21

I'm not sure of how sugar sand works, however if it means the sand moves easy then I would think you would want some kind of footer.
Here in Virginia I have a sand/loam soil which means there is a small amount of clay and a mix of real dirt and sand. The soil moves easier then clay but can be stable with gras or anything growing. I poured a pole building pad 4 inches thick with fiber in the mix and have not had any craking problems. Drove a 45,000 lb truck on it last year,

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John A (TX)

04-20-2004 07:05:52

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to VADAVE, 04-19-2004 11:47:52

Thanks, Dave. "Sugar sand" has a consistency that's just about what the name implies: Just like sugar. Just flows through your fingers if you pick up a handful of it.

On footings: This new slab is adjacent to an existing building and is cut into the side of a hill. So has an existing slab on one side and a retaining wall on two sides. The fourth side is open and that side has a pretty good footer formed in all the way across with some extra rebar in it. Keeping fingers crossed. :-)

Thx again ..
~ja

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Ray,IN

04-19-2004 21:56:29

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Re: Re: OT - Concrete Slab question in reply to VADAVE, 04-19-2004 11:47:52

Rebar and remesh both have thier uses and are good for them. Most concrete will crack eventually. These will keep the concrete from moving up/down or drifting apart. Self-leveling concrete crack filler works well to fill, seal and smooth these voids.

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