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Metal Roof on Shop

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Steve-Maine

04-15-2004 02:56:29




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I'm buildinga 32x50 Shop and going to use metal roofing. One builder wants to use plywood under metal roofing while the other builder wants to just put straps on trusses. I would think if the metal sweats it will leak down onto ceiling without plywod under roof. What is a good metal roof and what to use under roof instead of the expensive plywood. Will heat barn in winter only while working in it. Thanks

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T_Bone

04-16-2004 12:57:56




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Hi Steve,

Your contractor gave you good advice.

A metal roof will expand and contract alot and that why we install them in the heat of summer in hot climates and dead winter in cold climates as this keeps leakage to a minimum for many years.

What he would do is install a slip sheet (roofing felt) between the plywood and the metal decking. This allows the metal to slip on the felt when expanding or contracting as well provide the needed vapor barrier for consensastion. This is also the reason why a slip sheet is installed on any type of roof, and yes asphalt shingles move.

As Tip stated, a standing seam is the best method of installing a metal roof as theres no screw hole penetrations to create leaks or pull loose. We use a "u" shape strap that goes over the male "L" part of the standing seam and is fasten to the joist/perlins/columns with screws, then a layer of joint caulking, then the female "U" part of the standing seam slips over the male part and the "U" strap, then a button punch (puts dimples in the seam) is used to lock the standing seam parts together. The thinner the metal gauge (example;26ga vs 20ga) the closer the standing seams need to be so the wind doesn't "suck" the metal up off the slip sheet.

The next best is using screws with neophrene washers. This allows the metal pull against the washer and then the washer expands back to it's normal setting when the wind dies down.

The other method is using SM screws without any washer. Although they will hold much better than nails, if your using thin gauge sheeting, the screw head will pull thru the sheeting given enough time.

Never use nails on metal buildings, only screws. As I stated the wind will "suck" the metal outward, doesn't matter if roof or wall metal, and slightly pull on the nail head each time. After a few years the nails really get loose then your sheeting starts coming off if not renailed.

T_Bone

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Steve-Maine

04-17-2004 03:32:39




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 Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to T_Bone, 04-16-2004 12:57:56  
T-Bone, What brand metal roofing have you used. I rather use type without the screws but can't seem to find in Portland,Me, Thanks for Help



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T_Bone

04-17-2004 09:56:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-17-2004 03:32:39  
Hi Steve,

I decided to answer here too keep the info linked together.

It is/is not a specific brand too say. Any metal roof supplier should be able to run standing seams "if" they have the roller dies for making standing seams. You could have to wait until they make a production run this type of decking.

You can also contact local sheet metal contractors as metal roofs are part of the sheet metal trade. Most roofing contractors tho employ sheet metal workers for this type of work as the typical roofer tradesman doesn't like doing fine metal art work.

To shorten the SM contractor hunt, call your local SM Union office and ask for a local contractors that installs standing seam roofing.

After finding a contractor, ask for addresses of installed roofs. Then drive by and look at the finished product from the ground as you can quickly see major flaws,ie; deck buckled/bubbles, standing seam joints not straight, etc.

T_Bone

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VaTom

04-17-2004 16:59:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to T_Bone, 04-17-2004 09:56:53  
Hey T_Bone,

Now I'm a little confused. Are you talking about a traditional standing seam roof?

I just had 2220 lbs of hard roll copper (16 oz.) delivered for that. All we do is use tongs to form the pans and then seamers to do the double fold, encompassing the cleats. As the seamers are self-aligning, it's all but impossible to do anything crooked. Buckling is usually caused by over-length pans without either the correct expansion cleats, or lateral expansion joints (welts).

Copper price has risen a lot lately, but not as much as steel.

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Butcher

04-15-2004 18:51:47




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
For one thing, the reason you get condensation in a steel structure is from the warm air riseing and hitting the cold roof. If you are going to insulate you would be better off to put in a cieling and insulate above that. Then put in roof vents to get the air moving.
Oh yeah, buy the way, up north here if you do not put your rafters on a post you will have serious problems. Do you want to have poles every 4 feet?

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Tip

04-15-2004 15:29:37




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
The old timers would tell you to sheath the roof with green rough cut lumber. Probably overkill, but it sure stiffens a structure up.

If you buy it locally, you should be able to get hemlock or a similar softwood pretty cheap - better than plywood at about 1/
2 the cost. For that matter, build the whole shop with green lumber - you will end up with a better structure and support your local economy.

As for roofs, a standing seam metal roof will last forever. More expensive to put up, but, unlike other metal roofs, which will leak around screw holes after the neoprene washers dry out (or the nails loosen up), the standing seam has no holes.

Good luck!

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Shane

04-17-2004 16:47:42




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 Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Tip, 04-15-2004 15:29:37  
Why should you use green lumber? Heard this before too.



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mj

04-15-2004 11:06:16




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
I use rafters or trusses on 2' centers and 1X6's on 12 or 16" ctrs. (depending on the roofs' pitch) for purlins. I lay down tar-paper and then the tin. If it's a heated space I put the insulation (blow-in) above the ceiling (plastic vapor barrier then sheetrock, OSB or plywood)...the tar-paper stops any moisture from getting past the tins' seams/screws and soaking the insulation. Western Colo. climate.

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Dave Sherburne, NY

04-15-2004 10:56:24




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
I forgot the insulation, blow in fiberglass wool on top of the ceiling.



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Dave Sherburne, NY

04-15-2004 10:55:15




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Don't put plywood under sheetmetal roof. Trusses 4' apart , then purlins at right angles to trusses about 2' apart. Then sheet metal on top nailed or screwed on the top of ridges. Put vapor barrier on the bottom of trusses, then ceiling under the vapor barrier. I used sheet metal on the ceiling, a light gauge. Leave a gap at the peak between the top ends of the sheet metal roofing. When you put on on the ridge cap don't use the rubber sealing strips leave a gap for air to circulate out. You may have to put them in later if the wind blows the snow in. then put vents in the ends
at the peak. If you use metal on the sides it gets nailed on the flats not on the ridges. except on the joints. MORE IMPORTANT , put the heat in the concrete floor.

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Shane

04-17-2004 16:45:36




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 Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Dave Sherburne, NY, 04-15-2004 10:55:15  
Why do you nail into the ridges on roof and not on the walls. Why not just on the flat for both roof and walls?



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JT

04-15-2004 10:05:25




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
I am just finishing a 28 x 36 shop with 10' ceilings. I did as Joyce suggested - trusses on 4' centers and horizontal purlins (2 x 4's) flat on 2' centers. I used an insulated sheathing board on the top and sides called RBoard made by Atlas. I used the 5/8" which only has an R value of 3.8 but I live in the deep south and didn't need a lot of protection from the cold. I mainly wanted it for the sweating problem.

The RBoard is a rigid board with a very tough facing on both sides similar to fiberglass. Whatever you choose I would highly recommend you NOT use plywood by itself. You can email me if you have any questions.

JT

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EngineerJoyce

04-15-2004 09:51:16




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Put trusses on 4' centers, lay 2x4 purlins flat length of building, 2' on center, Then a layer of reflective insulation (thin, about 1/4" thick) and nail the 29 gauge, double ribbed, baked enamel roofing on top.

If you want a ceiling, the trusses will have to be closer (16" or 2') but won't cost as much per truss and will have to be designed for a roof load (ceilings weigh quite a bit). But with a ceiling, you could put most of your insulating here and have a cozy winter workshop.

Ask around local, what did your neighbor use? Is he happy with it? What would he do differently?
Then check on the contractor, talk to previous customers. How good is he? Does he do quick work or quality work?

In other words, check the integrity of the source of your information (which is impossible on the 'net). Best of luck. Hope it works out beautifully.

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Shane

04-17-2004 16:43:11




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 Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to EngineerJoyce, 04-15-2004 09:51:16  
Screws not nails! Don't come loose as easy and much easier to install, saves thumbs!



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Jared in VT

04-15-2004 08:38:21




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Steve, Sounds like you have good sense, just go with it. Metal roofs are the best, but they are really lots different than other types of roofing so you have to allow for that. It's noisy and loud and cold or hot and throw's snow load like an avalanche. Chris is correct. But you need to insure that the strapping is spaced to support the tin. Essentially each rib needs full length support. Insulate and install a vapor barrier. The tin roof is gona outlast you, so get it right when you install it. I reccomend sheet type (2") double foil faced fiber glass insulation. That and a cold roof style installation will give you R-14+. Strap the roof over the rafters, or trusses horizontally, install the vapor barrier, than the sheet insulation, then a vertical layer of strapping to to support and fasten the tin. If it seems like a bad or goofy idea, it likly is. Good luck and enjoy your new shop!
Jared

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chris

04-15-2004 07:34:33




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Plywood under metal would be a waste of money in more ways than one- mainly the fact that the trusses would have to be closer together to carry the plywood load. Also plywood is not a good insulator so the metal would sweat anyway making the wood wet, NOT what you want inside your shop. They make a vapor barrier designed to be put under metal roofing on pole barns and its cheap and works! Your best bet however would be to put a ceiling inside and insulate the attic space.

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greenbeanman

04-15-2004 05:32:25




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Let me first say that I am not knowledgeable on the subject and have questioning thoughts instead.

It seems better to me to insulate just above the ceiling and restrict the heat from getting to the cold roofing. Would it then have condensation enough to give problems?

I sure wouldn't use plywood directly under the roofing without a moisture barrier of some sort.
I would probably prefer a rubber membrane if I could afford it, although the house wrap could be used from what little I have read of the product.

If it were me, I think that I would contact a maker of sheet goods for such roofs and see what they have to say. They should have the definitive answer.

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Dieselrider

04-15-2004 03:35:57




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 Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Steve-Maine, 04-15-2004 02:56:29  
Steve, We're just come through our second winter in a 40'X60' building we put up with metal roof and sides. What we put on under the roofing is house wrap and it really stops the condensation from getting to the ceiling. Yes we have it heated and use it as a machine shop so we didn't want the water dripping on machines. Good luck.



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RexB

04-15-2004 05:21:52




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 Re: Re: Metal Roof on Shop in reply to Dieselrider, 04-15-2004 03:35:57  
I put fiberglass insulation under mine, no waterdrips on equipment inside. Comes in rolls 2 inches thick, 10 ft wide, and the R-7 insulation value keeps me 10 degrees warmer in winter when heating.



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