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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Getting Good Ashpalt Paving

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Dan

04-07-2004 10:21:06




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Will be getting quotes soon to get my driveway paved. Present gravel drive has been in place for years and is good an solid. What questions do I need to ask? How can I ensure a good quality asphalt job? Concrete too expensive for my budget. Thanks for any input.




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James in MO

04-10-2004 14:31:31




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
Dean in MI is right. I work at an asphalt plant in KS There are alot of different grades of aspalt oil they can use our typical oil around here is a PG 64-22 which is 64 degrees centigrade to minus 22 degrees centigrade here in the midwest that is probably what will be used I would guess. The other thing is there are literally millions of ways to make asphalt cheaper the best is adding recycled asphalt ot it which there is nothing wrong with I think KS will let us put up to 25% in our state mixes the problem for you is if you are paying for virgin rock you need to get it RAP saves the enviroment and saves the producer money but that doesn't help you if he doesn't pass the savings on. Getting a cold feed sample is the next thing you can do but unless you are at the plant and see them take the sample and then verify they load that mix in the trucks that are hauling to your job don't waste your money I am sure the inspectors will agree with me as inspectors are always present in KS when making state mix. When you get a hot mix sample you need to get a good representative sample don't get what ever is kicked out of the augers on the paver and unless you test it within 2 hours of producing it don't waste your money you will not get an accurate test unless they are using granite or another aggregate that has no absorption. Testing is expensive recomendations and other peoples expirence's are free if you use a good reputable firm it will be fine. Another thing noone is putting 5-6%oil in outside sales mix not unless you want to pay through the nose for it ask for a 10-15% RAP mix they may be already planning on doing that we don't put RAP in our outside sales mix becasue we don't screen our rap if you have any questions about formulas for mixes send me an email I will tell you our asphalt is 25 dollars a ton and we don't sell to just anyone we produce about 400,000 tons a year for ourselves and now we have added another plantand we are doing sales out of one to three cities and 4 contractors

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Charles (in GA)

04-08-2004 06:20:34




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
Put out salt on the ground just before the tar goes down. that will insure that grass and such does not grow up thru the asphalt, which it loves to do.

charles



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VaTom

04-08-2004 06:03:24




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
That's funny. I recently gave a concrete price to a customer who decided that asphalt was too expensive. It's to go over a deteriorated asphalt drive. The normal concrete companies here all charge by a set sq ft price which would make the job incredibly expensive. Driveways and house slabs aren't the same.

I looked at it in terms of material and labor, plus profit. We can easily place and broom finish 30 yds in one day. Another day to set the forms with required drainage. No good reason to be prohibitively expensive.

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John A

04-07-2004 21:04:58




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
Dan, Can't help with the product you finelly get. But these folks can help save your investment in a paved drive. After you get it done contact....
Verden Perma-built
Amarillo, Texas
They have the best sealer ,....period.
Their parking lot was paved over 30 yrs ago and it had not been repared or patched.
This sealer can save you a ton of money in the future repairs. especially in areas where there is lots of cold weather.
Hope this helps ,
John A.

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DaveinKY

04-07-2004 16:11:48




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
Check references! I was at my son-in-laws house last fall in Ohio when a reputable man showed up in a nice pickup with a sign on the side. He was out of business cards. He had just completed a job and had a load and a half of asphalt left over. He could do the driveway quick, half price. He even gave a quote. My son-in-law was tempted, but he wisely held off. Wasn't long before the word was passed around that "the travelers", the disreputible group out of Florida who are famous for their fast paint jobs that wash off after the second rain have gone into the water soluable asphalt business. It melts and washes away. Be ware!

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Roy in UK

04-07-2004 23:24:37




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 Re: Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to DaveinKY, 04-07-2004 16:11:48  
Oh, we don't just get those buggers in England then!
If they have to knock on the door to find business they are no good.



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Mark

04-07-2004 15:50:42




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
When they level wedge it make sure they have good coverage in the center.It may take two trips over. One to level the tracks up,and a topcoat to insure that there is a minimum coverage over the full width of the road. Otherwise the center will be thin and crack and weeds will grow through it.Might also be a good idea to kill any weeds and grass,it can grow through blacktop.Make sure they widen the turns so you,or the heating oil truck doesn't drop off the edge and crack it.

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MAC,IL

04-07-2004 15:24:34




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
I have a good solid rock drive, I had once considered concrete till I found out it raised my property taxes. Neighbor had a blacktop installed, looked good, but you got to maintain it, it is not maint free. His is cracking around the edges pretty bad.



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CNKS

04-07-2004 13:29:11




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
Why?--"Present gravel drive as been in place for years and is good and solid". Asphalt will eventually crack and will also chip off at the sides. If it's hot where you live it will also bleed. Your present drive will be easier to maintain. All you need is another load of gravel every few years.



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kyhayman

04-07-2004 12:00:05




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 Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Dan, 04-07-2004 10:21:06  
Get several bids. Last year I got mine top layered (25 years old, getting in pretty bad shape). Got 2" of hot mix put on it (12'x300' with last 40', 40'x40'. Bids (4) ranged from $6800-$2800. I went with the low bid, local guy, decent quality work. He's the one that put it in in the first place, figure if this one makes 25 more years that will be as long as most road surfaces last.



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Tom Boege

04-07-2004 17:38:56




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 Re: Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to kyhayman, 04-07-2004 12:00:05  
Hello I'm a paving inspector for a county highway department in Minnesota. The vast majority of contractors here doing driveways for years have used what we call a sand mix basically sand and asphalt cement mixed together. They use this mix because it's easy to work with and gives an excellent finish. If a tennis court like appearence isn't that important to you then ask for or about a regular road type mix. A road mix contains 3/4" minus rock typically here in Minnesota and if the rock is crushed to acheave this size it is better yet but not required for some mixes. It's considerably stronger and more durable then sand mixes. Also if you can, find out the amount of asphalt oil added (it's a % by weight) should be around 5-6% Finally ask about the grade of asphalt used. If you live in a cold climate you need to select an asphalt cement that will allow the mat to stretch and not crack in the cold due to it's contraction. Finally, remember subgrade needs to be reasonably dry, firm and compacted to make you drive hold up over the years and DEFINANTLY make sure whoever you hire has liability and workmans compensation insurance.

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Dean Minnesota

04-07-2004 18:40:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Getting Good Ashpalt Paving in reply to Tom Boege, 04-07-2004 17:38:56  
I am also a highway paving inspector. The worst scam I've seen happened to my brother about 15 years ago. They paved his driveway with what looked like temporary patching mix which is used in the wintertime to fill potholes. Whatever roller they used was equaelly pathetic. Density in the grade and density in the paving are generally the most important things to deliver a long life. For density of the grade their should not be any soft spots. This can be checked by simply walking on the grade and if your heels dig in alittle bit you probably have some water under the clay etc. The solution is to dig it out and replace it with dry material and have it rolled with a self propelled roller that weighs at least a thousand pounds, bigger is better. This works if your not working in really saturated soils. The even more critical rolling comes after the paver lays down the mix. There is a temperature heat window range which varies from mix to mix, at which time the self propelled roller should make at least for passes over the material. If it is rolled to hot it may leave alligator cracks and if it is rolled to late it will not achieve proper density or compaction. This can shorten the life up to 70 % depending on severity. On commercial road paving, most of the contractors supply their paver operators with infrared heat guns that measure the temperature from the drivers seat. These people generally get the best results. However you can also measure the heat by sticking the thermometer in the mix before it is rolled the first time. If you really want a good idea of their work, check with the road inspectors to see if they were satisfied with their county or state road paving work or if they gave them a lot of deductions on their pay due to a lack of density. Also ask the contractor what mix he plans to use and then check to see if it is one that is also used i n commercial work. Get your agreement in writing and take a 3 gallon pail of the mix as a sample. You can get a consultant or maybe the local county knows where to send it to have it analyzed if you have trouble. Two inches is about the minimum thickness for any durability and 3 inches done in two lifts is the equilvalent for alot of rehab road paving.

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