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Recommend a good compressor.

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JF

09-05-2000 11:08:06




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I have a small shop and would like to buy an air compressor. I will want to operate things like impact wrenches, air sanders etc. I would also like to have it be able to spray paint items such as tractor hoods, wheels etc. What size would be good, like H.P., SCFM and PSI. Thanks

Johnny




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Roger Prosper

09-10-2000 00:27:09




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 Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to JF, 09-05-2000 11:08:06  
ltf is on the money. I have been a compressor mechanic for 6 years, so here's my two cents.

Oilless--Avoid at all costs. You will be lucky to get two years out of one before the rod snaps or the valves pack it in. They aren't new space-age technology, they are a cheap piece of crap. I have seen rods as expensive as $90 a piece, you could hold it in the palm of one hand. If the bearings go in the gear drive, the compressor is toast, since it is usually integrated with the motor armature and cannot be disassembled. They are also extremely noisy. They usually break the discharge line in a couple of months due to vibration and the fact that they use cheap aluminum tubing because it is so easy to bend. They often use crappy check valves too. There is nothing to recommend them except low price, and that quickly disappears when they need a repair. Almost all the parts are special order, and good luck asking for any technical help from the teenager who sold it to you from the big box retailer.

5HP- Doubtful. Be very careful here. No 5hp motor can run on 110V. Period!! It is quite a pull for household 220v single phase as well. ltf is right about the 4cfm per hp rule. No one is going to beat it. And who cares what the air delivery is at 40psi? Check the HP on the motor, it will say something like SPL, ie, they don't want to tell you. A Quincy 325 is the best 5hp pump made. It is 265 lbs. Nothing 1/3 the size and 1/10 the weight is a 5hp pump. Good rule of thumb, 1hp is required per 10 cubic inches of first stage piston displacement, i.e. the piston pumping from atmosphere. Use the displacement of all pistons if it is a single stage pump.

Aluminum pumps----Most are crap, except Champions, which are excellent, cool running, quiet, durable, high cfm pumps. Highly recommended.

Single stage vs two stage.---- Single stage pump produce more air, two stage pumps more pressure. Another mechanic and I built two 5hp compressors on vertical 60 gal tanks and we had a race (we are very boring people :-) ). The pumps were Fu Sheng TA 80 (single stage) and a Fu Sheng HTA 80 (two stage). The single stage compressor hit 100 psi a full minute sooner than the two stage. No one needs 175 psi at home. Look at your tools, I bet they need 90 psi max. Single stage compressors are better for most users, lots of volume, not lots of pressure. IR makes a nice single stage vertical twin cast iron compressor on a vertical 60 gallon tank for under $1000. In my opinion, it is a better unit than the Type 30 V-twin that they are selling as a light duty 5hp. The new one turns just over 1000 rpm, the v-twin (which is really a 3hp pump sped up, a 234 I believe) turns 1400 rpm. I know which one I would buy. Grainger sells the Speedaire line, which use Campbell Hausfeld cast iron pumps, which last a long time. I have seen some CH, VT series pumps 30 years old in good condition. I like the v-4 unit they sell. Be dubious about the HP claims though.

Belt drive---Best. Checking, changing and topping up the oil is a very small price to pay for having a quieter, longer-lasting compressor. Keep it level too, and don't neglect the air filter. Should be no chore for a bunch of guys in the tractor resurrection biz. DON"T USE ENGINE OIL! It is the best way I know to turn your compressor into a oil puking, glazed cylinder mess, not to mention totally carbon fouling the valves.

Hope I have helped.

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Beitz

09-16-2000 04:08:08




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 Re: Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to Roger Prosper, 09-10-2000 00:27:09  
I disagree on running on 110 volts....
I depends on who made the motor.... There is good and bad in everything... My friend has been running a 10 hp. 110 volt motor for about 20 years on a commpresser... I would not want his electric bill... I think it draws 50-60 amps.. But its a good motor... I have three 5 hp motors that are only 110 volts and they work fine...



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Roger Prosper

09-16-2000 23:41:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to Beitz, 09-16-2000 04:08:08  
Perhaps I misled you. I meant no one will be able to pull the amps required to run a 5hp motor from the power available from a typical houshold service. I have seen 50hp motors running as low as 208V and they were pulling 125A. Most 5hp compressors are actually 2-3hp. Then they do some engineering-legal mumbo-jumbo to claim 5hp. Remember the extra amps required to get the whole rigamarole started too. I have seen up to 8 times the continuous running amp draw required at start-up. It was probably more than that actually, but the meter couldn't respond fast enough to display the actual value.

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ltf in nc

09-07-2000 21:42:33




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 Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to JF, 09-05-2000 11:08:06  
I am experienced with air compressors and their application having worked in the industry. It is late and my input will be brief. Most air compressor manufacturers lie, especially the ones making the cheap machines offered at discount stores. Ignore the HP rating. That is a sales gimmick. Most 5 HP compressors are really 2 to 3 horsepower compressors with electric motors capable on making 5 HP but only delivering 3HP. Look at the CFM rating on the compressor. The unit should deliver 4 CFM per horsepower. Use this and this only to evaluate the compressor. Most air tools are designed to operate on 90 PSI. More shop pressure than this is asking for trouble from the tools. Get a cast iron compressor and one that is belt driven. Direct compressors have bearing trouble after they are run for a while. All good air cooled compressors are designed with an eighty percent duty cycle. That means that it must run unloaded 20 percent of the time in order to cool. After the break in period, switch the compressor to synthetic oil. The synthetic oil will not foul the valves by carboning them. I suggest that you purchase a minimum of 5 horsepower and that should make approximately 19 CFM at 90 PSI. Plumb your shop with black pipe as the plastic pipe is not approved for use with oil. When you run the lines give them a little drop or fall so that water can accumulate at the end furtherest away from the compressor. At the points where you will have drops, mount the tees to where the tee is pointed upward and run a short niiple up and then install an elbow to point out and then install the disconnect. This will minimuze moisture getting in the air hose and tools. Put an oil mister in the lines that will fed the air tools. You will need a filter and dryer in the lines used to paint. If you have any questions repost and I will attempt to return and answer them. The type 30 I R compressor mentioned above is IMO a decent machine. Gota go.

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Stan

09-07-2000 19:51:50




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 Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to JF, 09-05-2000 11:08:06  
Bart has the right idea if you can afford it. The Ind Air of TX company has a 2 stage heavy duty comp. I can get the info on it if you are int'd e mail me.



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Michael Az

09-06-2000 06:45:45




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 Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to JF, 09-05-2000 11:08:06  
If there is any chance of sandblasting, I would recommend buying a two stage compressor as they are much faster.



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Mudcat49

09-06-2000 06:27:11




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 Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to JF, 09-05-2000 11:08:06  
TSC has some of the best prices I have seen on compressors. I have a Sears 6 hp oil-less with a 60 gallon tank and I am pleased with it. To run a air sander right you need at least a 60 gallon tank



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Scott Green

09-08-2000 03:11:24




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 Re: Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to Mudcat49, 09-06-2000 06:27:11  
Mudcat , It sounds like you might have the same compressor that my uncle has. Oiless with 2 wobble pistons. It works fine , but the noise is terrible. After hearing his , I would never buy one of those compressors from sears. Is yours like that? Scott



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Burrhead

09-06-2000 10:37:23




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 Re: Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to Mudcat49, 09-06-2000 06:27:11  
Mudcat what are they getting on the comp down there??

I looked at some here at TSC and they had gone up. A good quick recovery was about $400. Up til this summer they have been around $325.



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LarryGarbarek

09-05-2000 19:08:13




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 Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to JF, 09-05-2000 11:08:06  
One source of a lot of information on compressors is the W.W. Grainger catalog.

They also have sales specialists who could fine tune your selection.



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Bart

09-07-2000 02:29:45




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 Re: Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to LarryGarbarek, 09-05-2000 19:08:13  
Ingersoll-Rand, two stage. Then you will only have to buy one. Northern Hydraulics has a variety and free shipping on some models.



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Ed Bowen

09-07-2000 19:52:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Recommend a good compressor. in reply to Bart, 09-07-2000 02:29:45  

If you are planning on regular use, for a long time go ahead and get a GOOD brand compressor .These ''fast'' single stage so called 5 h.p. are allright for some uses .They arent built for constant duty use[i;ve seen the pumps melt by someone doing D.A. work for a long time. ] also consider finding parts down the road. MY IDEAS..... oilless..... .no more than tire inflation direct drive....your traped if one end goes inported ''no names'' wheres the parts???? a lot of used ones...someone else's problems not to say you cant get agood used machine but know about it .I've bought good and BAD In the end how much you want to spend and what your uses are ..M2 cent s worth EPB

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