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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

How can steam be dry?

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Slowpoke

02-23-2004 00:10:02




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I have an opportunity to buy a small flash boiler steam cleaner that has "dry" steam at 80-100psi, about 500�. If steam is made from water, why is it dry, and will it clean grease and/or oily dirt ok?
This is a really small cleaner, less than 5gph,
and steam lasts for about 60 seconds.
Any explanation of "dry" steam is welcome.




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Fred OH

02-23-2004 10:33:02




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 Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Slowpoke, 02-23-2004 00:10:02  
Superheated steam is what I was taught...and saturated steam is what it was called when it was wet. Steve McQueen had another term for it when he taught the oriental fellow in the movie called Sand Pebbles...He called it live steam and dead steam when it was condensed back to water. Superheated steam shows no evidence when leaking...run your hand across a leak and your hand falls off. There was an old story about in a navy engine/fire room leak...the chief would order everyone out of the space and then wave a broom around in the suspected area. When the end of the broom fell off he had found the leak. Your mileage might vary. Also might mention that high pressure steam is very dangerous and there is probably all kinds of codes and inspections when it is used in a public place of business or when employees use the equipment. Fred OH

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Joe Evans

02-23-2004 10:51:36




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 Re: Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Fred OH, 02-23-2004 10:33:02  
Yes, I recall Steve McQueen...It's STEEEEEM, not STEM you (blankety, blank)!

I read where the Navy experimented with 1200 PSI steam systems in destroyers as opposed to the traditional 600 PSI. They concluded that the maintenance headaches didn't warrant the extra pressure. Man, 600 PSI is deadly enough. Can you imagine 1200 PSI?

I have no idea what the modern Navy systems run at.



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Nolan

02-24-2004 06:13:59




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 Re: Re: Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Joe Evans, 02-23-2004 10:51:36  
1200 psi on my ship.



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Wayne

02-23-2004 21:05:11




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 Re: Re: Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Joe Evans, 02-23-2004 10:51:36  
The main difference between dry steam and wet steam is that set steam still has water vapor entrained in it and dry steam is heated to the point there is no entrained vapor. Dry steam is used in higher pressure systems because the water vapor in wet steam would eventually erode the steam piping causing holes. Have you ever heard a water hammer? That's what happens when there is a slug of liquid water inside a steam pipe and it's forced along through the pipe by the movement of the steam until it can't make a turn, etc and hits the side of the pipe. If you've ever been in a house with the old steam heat radiators you've probably heard them as the ocassional pinging, now imagine one in a 1200 psi steam line when it hits..... I spent 6 years in tne Navy working in the engine rooms as a Machinist Mate onboard both a destroyer and an aircraft carrier. Both used 1200psi superheated steam that ran at approximately 975 degrees. I saw one of the other posts said something about the chief waving a broom aroung looking for a leak and watching it cut the broom stick in half. I've never seen it happen live but I do remember seeing a safety video showing it happen. They said if you walked past it it wouldn't necessarily kill you because it would cut and cauterize all at the same time. Yes they are using gas turbines on alot of the newer ships but believe it or not the nuclear ships are still steam powered. The only difference between them and the old WW2 'conventionsl' ships is that one uses heat from an oil fired boiler to make the steam and the nukes use heat from a nuclear reaction. There were nuke MMs and conventionsl MMs and we used to say the only difference in us and the nukes was that we didn't glow in the dark. It looks like a big complicated setup when you go down in the engine room but after awhile it all just becomes old hat. Personally I'd like to see the really big boilers and turbines in that power plant mentioned below....

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Fred OH

02-23-2004 19:56:31




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 Re: Re: Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Joe Evans, 02-23-2004 10:51:36  
I heard that the modern destroyers are using gas turbines...you know...those screaming devils that turn about 10 or 20,000 rpm. Anybody heard anything about this? Wouldn't mind going on a dependents day cruise on a newer tincan and see if an ex-snipe (MR) could get a tour of the modern engineroom. Wish there was a skipper that frequented the tractor board that would see this and invite me. Fred OH

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Roger

02-23-2004 15:19:01




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 Re: Re: Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Joe Evans, 02-23-2004 10:51:36  
I used to do some compressor maintenance at a few generating stations a few years ago. In orientation, we read some of the specs of the system : steam pressure 3000psi @ 1300F. It took a week for the turbines to cool down enough to be taken apart for service. The flue gases were 600F, and would cook your lungs if you inhaled any leaking gas. The flame was actually in mid-air, as it was kept aloft by huge blowers feeding in pulverized coal and fresh air. The boiler feed pumps were 1000hp apiece. The boilers were about 8 stories high, and floated in their own feedwater, like ships. It was kind of a spooky place to work, since it seemed like everything was on the ragged edge of blowing to pieces. It was also so loud in there thet we had to wear plugs and muffs, and we communicated by handsignals a lot of the time. The generator windings were cooled with hydrogen (don't ask me how that kept from going BOOM!). There was also a small matter of 240,000V. There were six turbines in there, at 500MW each, which is over 3 million horsepower. We used to think a 100hp compressor screw was kinda large, till we took one apart one day and had it lifted out by the crane. By the time it had lifted it to the top of the station, we couldn't see it anymore. We worked on their compressors and blowers, which were used for dust collection. There must have been about 30 compressors per station, with none smaller then 75hp, and the blowers were run in groups of three, through a chain drive, with a 4160V, 350hp motor. It is something to see a 4" diameter shaft twisted off like a piece of wet spaghetti. We joked that it was amazing that they had any electrons left over to send down the line, once they had powered up all their own machinery. Overall, it was probably the most interesting place I visited.

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Rod (NH)

02-23-2004 06:10:55




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 Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Slowpoke, 02-23-2004 00:10:02  
Hi there Slowpoke,

Completely "dry" steam is steam that is superheated. When steam is superheated, it is fully in the vapor form (no minute liquid droplets) just like air that is above the dewpoint. At 100 psig, any temperature above about 338 deg F will result in superheated steam. It is not visible in this state just like clean air is not visible. Also at 100 psig, when the temperature drops below about 338 deg F minute liquid droplets begin to form (condensation) and the steam becomes visible. At this point it is known as "wet". There are varying degrees of "wetness", known as "steam quality". Wet steam is analogous to fog in the air. You can actually see it. You can't see completely dry (superheated) steam.

third party image Rod

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Bob

02-23-2004 01:55:01




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 Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Slowpoke, 02-23-2004 00:10:02  
Link

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99656.htm



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Brian G. NY

02-23-2004 08:11:46




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 Re: Re: How can steam be dry? in reply to Bob, 02-23-2004 01:55:01  
Isn't steam water turned to gas? When I was in grade school many (many) years ago we were taught to look at the spout of a teakettle of boiling water. Between the spout and the visible water vapor, there is an area where nothing is visible; this is steam, a gas.



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