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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Hey ,T Bone .weld it up

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Chris Brown

02-22-2004 10:04:40




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My vertical welds look bad,they are plenty strong just real bumpy and ugly. I have a lincoln ac/dc I use 7018 1/8 rods generally . I have an airco 580 amp ac welder for heavy stuff. I have been wanting to buy a miller vintage or similar mig ,but don't have the $1500+ to shell out. I have 100's of hours welding but have never mastered the vertical weld. Do you have any suggestions for me. Most of my welding nowadays consists of building farm implements and building goosenecks on old retired 2 ton grain and dumptrucks,they make a handy farm inplement. I looked at a new stock trailer the other day ,on the neck the vertical welds were ground down and smoothed over with silicone then painted ,I'd be scared as heck to send something like that out on the road If I built it. My email link works just remove the last ".com"

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Fred OH

02-23-2004 11:07:04




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 Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to Chris Brown, 02-22-2004 10:04:40  
Simple way to take care of some of the vertical welds is to build yourself a hoist and position them in the horizontal position like the manufacturers do for critical welds. Fred OH



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Chris Brown

02-24-2004 10:50:23




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 Re: Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to Fred OH, 02-23-2004 11:07:04  
That's waht I do on the ones I can,I use the tractor loader and put it on it's side and sometimes all the way over.



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Bill 52 8n

02-22-2004 22:25:18




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 Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to Chris Brown, 02-22-2004 10:04:40  
We were taught at school with 3/32 7018 first then moved onto 1/8 and 5/32. If you try 3/32 rods (around 90 amps DC+) you will be amazed at your skill. Use a zig zag or ocsillating motion up the joint and viola, you have a nice 7018 verticle bead. Only downside is the smaller beadisze vs 1/8 rods. For 1/8 7018, a weave like T-bone said works, or for smaller beads a "J" or "U" motion can be used. If your having trouble seeing the puddle you can try a gold lens like Wayne said. Personally they don't work better for me, but I have friends who use them exclusivly. If you could borrow one to try it out you may like it.

Bill

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T_Bone

02-22-2004 18:27:26




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 Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to Chris Brown, 02-22-2004 10:04:40  
Hi Chris,

Read thru what I posted before and see if it helps. If it don't let me know and we'll think of something.


(Edited for content 01/25/04) Please update your file.

Vertical up welding is fairly easy to do once you get the hang of it. Electrode angle pays a very important roll, about 5* to 10* down from horizontal, 0* works best sometimes, and you need your head below the rod to see the weld puddle with a close arc length and a slightly faster travel speed.

Vertical down welds are allowed by AWS code and are limited to 2" in length on fillet welds but most welds fail when ran verticle down as it's very easy to trap slag with in the molten puddle. I only recomend very experienced welders use vertical down. Learn verticle up first!

Now most welders watch the "slag" in the molten puddle and not the molten puddle it's self and that causes the molten puddle to fall or the weld puddle will slump before the welder moves the rod upward. Thats why we teach you to weld flat first so you can reconize the weld puddle from the slag. If you can see the difference in the weld puddle and the slag, then do not let the slag take your attenion away from the motlen puddle in the vertical position like it does to most weldors.

A vertical weave bead is made by starting a weld puddle then moving horzontial, 8 rod diameters max, then pause slightly to deposit more weld, move up 1/2 rod diameter, then back to the starting point. The horizontal move should be fairly fast so if the weld slumps in the center then your moving too slow. If the ends are under cut then your not pausing long enough at the corners. Take a stratch awl making two vertical lines will help you keep the weld straight and uniform width.

The 8 times the rod diameter maximum is so the slag does not cool before you return to deposit more metal thus entraping slag with-in the molten puddle.

Use your arc length and travel speed to adjust for different welding positions. There is no need to adjust amps from flat welding to overhead welding to verticle welding. This is very important too learn for when welding in a 6G position. A 6G position is a pipe fixed at 45*.

Which has more heat displaced content; 1) a long arc length, 2) a short arc length ?
A long arc length as the heat is spread over a wider area. This is why a short arc length is much easier to control the molten puddle.

My method of teaching is to have the welder try to move too fast, too slow, long arc length, short arc length, rod angle at 45*, at 5*, too many amps, too low of amps, etc: and pay close attention to the changes each makes in the weld. I reverse teach, "what makes a bad weld". If you know what causes a bad weld then you will know how to correct it when you make that mistake.

This is also where your plastic welding lens will fail you the most. You now have two weld puddles due to the distortion of the plastic lens. Which one is the true weld puddle?

Use only a all glass lens.

T_Bone

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Wayne

02-22-2004 20:20:34




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 Re: Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to T_Bone, 02-22-2004 18:27:26  
Hey T_bone, have you ever tried the gold coated glass lenses instead of the regular green ones? I have a problem with color blindness with certain shades, especially in the green spectrum, and I always had a problem telling the weld from the slag til I changed to the gold coated lens. It changed the percieved colors enough for me to tell what was what and made things alot easier for me. It also seemed to remove more of the "glare" that always seemed to be there with a regular green lens.

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T_Bone

02-23-2004 15:09:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to Wayne, 02-22-2004 20:20:34  
Hi Wayne,

Ohh ya, theres nothing that beats the glass gold Cool-Ray lens.

There are plastic gold lens available but those are useless as you still get the weld puddle distortion.

If you haven't tried a Huntsman 411P welding hood, thats something you need to try. Very light weight paper hood that keeps your face and eyes cool all day long.

T_Bone



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Chris Brown

02-23-2004 16:16:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey ,T Bone .weld it up in reply to T_Bone, 02-23-2004 15:09:24  
I havent been having trouble keeping my face cool lately(HA). Send me an email and I'll send you an invite to my webshots album where I posted a couple pictures of some vertical welds I made,look at my welder while you are there. My email link works ,just remove the last .com



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