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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Outlet Conversion

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James in North

02-17-2004 16:27:09




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I have a friend that is moving into an old house on their family farm. He wants to convert a 220V outlet to a 110V outlet. It is currently on a 30amp breaker. Also the wiring is old as the house had no electricity when built.

Can he do the conversion? What would need to be done? Thanks.




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James in North Carolina

02-18-2004 16:43:01




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 Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to James in North Carolina, 02-17-2004 16:27:09  
Many thanks for the responses. It was a big help.

He told me today that the breaker box is near the outlet. I suggested that since that is the case and with the wiring being 50+ years old, he just replace the wire with new and put in a new breaker. It's better to spend the money and do it right rather then burn the house down.

Thanks again.



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Matt K

02-18-2004 06:27:11




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 Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to James in North Carolina, 02-17-2004 16:27:09  
Is this outlet the only outlet on the circuit? If so, and provided that the wire is in good shape and of a suitable type, your friend should be able to replace the double pole 30 A breaker with a single pole 15 A. He will have to identify the which wire is which on both ends, one of the wires will have to be identified as a neutral, this can be done by applying white electrical tape to the wire on both ends (the end in the breaker panel and the end at the outlet). The "white" wire can then be connected to the neutral bus of the breaker panel and to the neutral (silver) terminal of the outlet. The "hot" wire (which can be any color other than green or white) can then be connected to the breaker and to the outlet.

I am not an electrician, use this information at your own risk. If you are unsure of anything consult a knowledgeable person in your area.

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paul

02-17-2004 21:29:05




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 Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to James in North Carolina, 02-17-2004 16:27:09  
The good news is that his circut is supplying 2 120v hot lines, which makes the 220 because they are opposite waves of each other.

The bad news is that he needs a good proper nutral wire running back to the box, and we have no way of knowing if that is there or not.

You can't keep the 30 amp breaker - it will be a dounble throw, you will need a 15 or 20 amp single. 30 amp is too much for regular house 120.

There are so many variables with old electrical wiring, and it is possible to make something work while it is not done right, safely, or legally.

So, hard to answer the question other than 'possibly'.

How difficult is it to access the wire that exsists? It would be simpler to pull in new wire back to the breaker box, replace the 30a double pole breaker with a 15a single & do it right that way. As is, hard to tell what you got, and where to go to get what you need.

--->Paul

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rhudson

02-17-2004 16:53:39




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 Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to James in North Carolina, 02-17-2004 16:27:09  
Hi James,
its a very good chance that the old circuit has only two "hot lines" with no neutral or ground wire. the only safe thing to do in this case (mind you, i claim to be a mechanical guy not electrical) is run new wire with ground and neutral the unsafe thing not to do, is drive a ground rod at the useage point and use it for a neutral/ground for one leg of the hot. its not code and for a reason.

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david - OR

02-18-2004 08:21:22




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 Re: Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to rhudson, 02-17-2004 16:53:39  
Most driven ground rods are actually very poor conductors to "true earth potential". The code says it has to be 25 ohms or less. The code alternative is to drive a second ground rod 6 feet away , but the combination does not have to achieve 25 ohms. Many electricians just drive two electrodes and leave it at that,rather than going to the trouble of measuring it. At 25 ohms, no device will perform well if you try to use a ground rod as a neutral return.

It is possible to measure ground rod resistance, albeit with the "ohms" scale on that Radio Shack VOM. There is a fancy technique involving three reference electrodes. Or there is the poor man's technique involving a good solid reference ground, one or two car batteries, an ammeter and a voltmeter.

I once drove a typical 5/8 ground rod 8 feet into moist soil. Curious to see how I did, I used the poor man's technique. Resistance was 16 ohms. Kind of disappointing. The next building I did with a 3/4 inch 10 foot ground rod. I had to stand on a ladder and drive the thing with 200+ blows with a sledgehammer. Result: 13 ohms. Lots of work for very little improvement.

The next project used a "Ufer" ground, basically 20 feet of rebar embedded in a concrete footing. This ground measured less than 3.5 ohms -- beyond the limits of my measurement technique. Much better than a ground rod -- but not appropriate to use as a return conductor.

The bottom line: driven ground rods are for lightning strikes and massive electrical surges, and not so great for even that. They are worthless and dangerous for acting as neutral returns.

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Elect. Eng.

02-19-2004 01:28:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to david - OR, 02-18-2004 08:21:22  
David, I think you have it wrong. If the code is 25 ohms or less. Then 16 ohms of resistance is a better ground than 25 ohms. The ultimate would be zero ohms.

my 2 cents



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DaveCA

02-19-2004 05:50:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to Elect. Eng., 02-19-2004 01:28:20  
Oh boy. Now this is where wiring a structure by internet gets messed up. Where many readers don't have a complete enough understanding. Who do they believe? Elect Eng can you please reread david_OR's post and clarify just where you see a problem? I don't see the problem with anthing david_OR said and it wouldn't be good to detract from the good information he gave.



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buickanddeere

02-17-2004 21:01:55




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 Re: Re: Outlet Conversion in reply to rhudson, 02-17-2004 16:53:39  
You do not use a ground rod driven into the soil as a neutral return to the transformer center tap. One white insulated wire from the plug goes back to the panel neutral and the other coloured goes to one of the two 120v halfs of the panel on a breaker/fuse. The ground is a bare conductor secured to true earth potential. The bond at the main panel between neutral and ground is just to hold the neutral down to earth potential. The ground wire is only a currnet carrying conductor during a fault condition.

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