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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

4-wheelers trespassing

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RayJ.

02-17-2004 13:39:31

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Over the week-end two 4-wheelers crossed my property.I suppose they had wire cutters with them because they cut four wire fence between me and neighbor. I don`t have livestock but neighbor has cows and horses in pasture. I discovered hole in fence before livestock did so the livestock did`nt get out. If they had got it`s wide open to down town. Called local police, they came out and all they could do was take a report. I ask officer if it happened again and I was lucky enough to catch them, could they be charged with tress-passing. He looked around and said I don`t see a no-trespassing sign any where. What`s up with this? Are people free to trsspass across your property cut your fences if it isn`t posted? Do you have a problem like this?

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Bob

02-18-2004 15:48:30

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

I believe that some of the people that are trespassing are doing it and not knowing what the penalty is or that it matters to the land owner. I agree that the law needs to be more stiff to the law breaker. It should be a fine (automatically) I have a neighbor that trespasses regularly with his 4-wheeler and he doesnt give a rip. His attitude is-cant catch me, I aint doing nothing wrong. The law is meant for other folks. The penalty should be $500 first offense and then go up from there.

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02-18-2004 16:03:41

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Bob, 02-18-2004 15:48:30

there was an instance around here last year where a couple of morons were out 4 wheeling in a truck out in a bean field, got stuck, the law and the homeowner made the truck sit until the ground was hard enough for him to get the truck out with doing any more soil damage to the mans field. $500.00 fine? if you get caught fishin/hunting without proper permits or permission, your guns/equipment get confiscated, that would put a stop to some of it, then after they do that the law can have an auction, thye can buy it back to be stupid again.

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Doug Morris

02-19-2004 19:56:21

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Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to jt, 02-18-2004 16:03:41

In California, if your property is fenced, cultivated or posted, and people are on it, it is trespassing.

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Bill Smith

02-18-2004 10:42:37

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

I believe No Tresspassing signs must be properly posted (every so many feet, ext.) before no tresspassing laws can be enforced. Good idea for property owners to post the signs, especially if exsperiencing some problems. Of coarse there is the burden of identifying the tresspassers to nail them on it. My advise is to properly post the property and be ready for them next time. Plan on doing alot of observing and detection work yourself, you can't exspect law enforcement to hang around your place 24, 7. I have been through this entire ordeal over people hunting without permission. As for the fence, I presume it belongs to the neighbor. They should be able to get them automatically for destruction of property. Of coarse, there again you got the burden of identifying the ones that did it.

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J.B. IN N.C.

02-19-2004 19:17:40

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Bill Smith, 02-18-2004 10:42:37

In n.c.,if cross a physical barrior;fence?,signs are not needed.Also,it is a crime to damage property,real or personal.Cops are often lazy and show little concern for doing what they are paid to do.As a retired cop and a current private investigator I speak from experience.My suggestion is to find out for yourself what the law says in your state is and then contact that cop shop again.Do not rely on what a cop tells you,find it for yourself.

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JK-NY

02-18-2004 17:16:11

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Bill Smith, 02-18-2004 10:42:37

I would check into the laws for your area,I had a problem with trespassers at my other place down the road 3/4 mi, it was the neighbor to the south .They drove out on one of my hay meadows last fall during hunting season.I have had this problem before and told them several times to sray off my property.I called a State Policeman who is a hay customer of mine and he told me in NY, if you tell someone to stay off your property or deny them permission to go on it, it is the same as being legally posted. I had the trooper go talk to them and inform them of that fact, so we'll see what happens next year.If it is someone you can identify I would tell them in no uncertain terms stay out,and see if the law might help you out,Good luck.

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Ben in KY

02-18-2004 11:23:04

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Bill Smith, 02-18-2004 10:42:37

Yes I believe it is every 300 ft in KY. And my signs are closer than that. All of the good friends and neighbors that cause no problems understand that the signs are not targeting them. It is my option to prosecute. I have a tester on the end of my electric fence loop so I can easially tell if someone has cut it or there is a problem on it. Don't want the critters getting out.

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Ben in KY

02-18-2004 07:29:27

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

Videos and photos of the trespassers are always nice to show the law and parents. Also High tensile wire and a predator grade electric fence charger works pretty well :)

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Mac

02-18-2004 09:53:17

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Ben in KY, 02-18-2004 07:29:27

Ben:
Been there, done that. You have to see the faces for proof. With the younger ones it boils down to what I think is improper parential guidance. Seems some of these machines have a sticker, no one under 13 to ride, dont mean nothing, seen a few a way under 13 thats riding wild. I thought there was a child endangerment law????? /

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Ben in KY

02-18-2004 11:19:39

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Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Mac, 02-18-2004 09:53:17

If you don't get the faces, usually the clothing and machine will get them in trouble with the parents after the parents have put on a "face" to you. The parents usually don't like the kids bringing home trouble to them. I posted some pictures of the tresspassers on the bulletin board at the local country store and had no repeats :)

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Nolan

02-18-2004 04:28:56

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

So you've got a twit jerk of a cop who responded. Consider going over his head. Either he doesn't know the law, doesn't care, or most likely, both.

I don't know of anywhere that allows you to cut a fence to trespass. Now unfenced land that is unmarked is different. Many times that can be legally entered. But as soon as a fence goes up, things change.

And as an fyi, having a fence doesn't mean a person can't legally open the gate to trespass. Many times they can. So you still need to post in order to legally take action against someone opening a gate and coming onto your land.

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farmerjosh

02-17-2004 19:39:25

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

there seems to be alot of opposition to 4 wheelers on this forum, I didnt hear one good comment, but by the sounds of it...I dont blame you all for being angry. there is another side to this story though. My wife and I both ride 4 wheelers for recreation as well as using them on our farm for fencing, chores and hunting. we have 435 acres of our own to ride on, some rented ground and also ride along the river on some neighbors property. which we have permission to do so by the way. there is also a state park about an hour away we go to some, they have excellant trails to ride on. we have had troublew with people coming through our property leaving gates open, tearing things up and when we asked them all they can say is"you ride there, why cant we?"....we are always respectful of nature when we ride, even on our own property. I just wanted to let you all know, all 4 wheeler riders arent bad, there is another side to this!

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Dieselrider

02-18-2004 04:13:55

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to farmerjosh, 02-17-2004 19:39:25

I am glad you responded to this because it is good to get the input from the other side. In my post below I stated that alot of you who ride probably do so respectfully. The main difference with guys like yourself and some other riders, I think , is that you are also a land owner. You already know the work involved in keeping a place up and the cost when something is destroyed. Those people that come through your gates and do damage probably don't. Unfortunately, there seems to be alot of those guys out there. They live in a trailer park without so much as a yard and spend thousands of dollars on a machine thinking they should be allowed to ride it any where they choose. They have no idea what a field of oats, corn or hay costs to put in the ground, or how difficult, if not impossible, to harvest once it's run through. Those are the guys that give land owners a distaste for any one who owns an ATV. I would like to get a utility type ATV some day, like a JD Gator or Kawisauki Mule for chores on the farm because I can see there usefulness but, here is where it will be used and riden. I wish there were some kind of regulation to purchasing these that if you couldn't show you already had a place to ride one you shouldn't be allowed to buy one. Just my 2 cents.

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Again

02-18-2004 05:43:15

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Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Dieselrider, 02-18-2004 04:13:55

What does a trailer have to do with it?
Where do you people live?LOL

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Dieselrider

02-18-2004 10:07:11

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Again, 02-18-2004 05:43:15

I live on our 106 acre farm. I just used a trailer as an example. The point I was making is that, why would you purchase a machine without a plan for using it? Alot of people buy these without a place of their own to ride them on. If their plan is to ride on State ground and if that's legal then ok. Some States have places for the public to ride while others do not. But, if they buy one and plan on hauling it to the "country" and just cutting lose, that is wrong. It is also wrong to live in a rural area and purchase one if you don't have your own place to operate it. You wouldn't like it if someone came onto your property and did damage there, and that is where the hard feelings toward these machines and their riders start. If you have a front yard, what would your thoughts be if the farmer down the road plowed it up to plant crops without your permission? To further that thought, what if he rolled his tractor over in your front yard while doing it and then turned around and sued you for his getting hurt? If that would bother you and I'm sure it would then you can understand the frustration and anger a land owner has toward the same kind of action by someone on his property. When it comes down to it, what's being said here in this thread is that the resposibility for hard feelings toward ATV users is up to the same riders to change those feelings by responsible riding.

I believe, by your post here and the one below, that you must own an ATV and ride. If so where do you ride? On your own land? Public land and if so is it legal in your State? Or do you ride on private land and do you have permission? I'm curious as to your point of view.

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Again

02-19-2004 14:17:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Dieselrider, 02-18-2004 10:07:11

Yes I do have atvs and own my ground,and allow that poor to farmer farm it for free,not bad for a atv owner.?????
And yes the tractors do drive in my yard when confronting another vehicle,but who cares.And have the debri from harvest all over my yard and pond,but who cares.After reading some of the post about snowmoblies and atvs here.it sounds like some of you people should move.I have lived in the country forever when not in the military and my Inlaws are a large farming family and have never heard of anything like that has been posted in the last couple of months here.
And by the way I know people that live in a trailer that own much more land than you and I.

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Dieselrider

02-19-2004 16:46:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Again, 02-19-2004 14:17:35

First JF, I would have to say that the farmer doesn't farm your ground for free. You may not charge him a dollar amount for rent but, there is no way it's free. If he is keeping your land tillable, that is farmable, he is spending many dollars on equipment, fertilizer, and sweat equity to keep your land at a much better resale value than what it would look like if it were left to itself for many years. Just ask him, or your inlaws, how much it costs to plant a field of oats, wheat, hay or whatever. I think it might surprise you. Some people out there don't know or care what they destroy on others property.

As far as the harvest debris, you must be refering to corn stalks and leaves and such, I guess. It's all biodegradable and will disperse back into the land.

If your inlaws haven't had these problems that's great and I hope they never do but, that doesn't mean they are in the majority when it comes to this. If this hadn't been a problem for a bunch of people then they wouldn't be getting upset at the mention of it. You aparently have very good neighbors and respectful folks around you who use ATV's. Not everyone is blessed with that, be thankful.

As to people moving to "run" from the problem, well some may but, it's not going to be an option for most. What would that solve anyway?

You seem very upset about my using the term trailer in the thread above. If I've offended you, I am sorry. I don't care what type of dwelling someone lives in. That doesn't make them good ar bad or rich or poor. My point was people who do not have a place to ride an ATV, whether they live in a castle or dungeon, shouldn't own one. Unless they just want to collect them. I hope you can see that every land owner out there isn't into "shooting" when it comes to this topic but, it is and will probably always be a sensitive subject.

If you are a responsible rider then great. If all these guys on here ever do is vent their frustration every once in awhile then I guess no harm is really done is there? May you always be ATV damage free and prosperous in whatever dwelling you live.

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Again

02-19-2004 17:09:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Dieselrider, 02-19-2004 16:46:22

You make good valid points all I was saying that not everyone with a atv runs all over everyones crops.
And I just get a laugh on how many people talk about their guns on these topics.
On most topics here you couldnt ask for a better bunch of people.

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You are a big dummy

02-19-2004 14:28:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Again, 02-19-2004 14:17:35

Get off it. If you have no regard for other people's land, come on over and run your 4 wheeler across my place and I will teach you some manners in a hurry.

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Mac

02-17-2004 17:23:03

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

No trespass signs dont mean nothing. I have seen them go by and literally tear the sign all to H***. Seen the law get on their trail, find out who they are, go to the parents and they got"Oh no, not my son, he has been here watching TV all nite. So what do you expect when parents lie for them. Then if you try and be nice about it and consult them or parents, you are making waves, therefore you are dubbed an A**H***. Guy I know, they kept riding thru the gate, he put up a fence, that nite they hit the fence, Now you know the rest of the story. I say get into their billfolds regularly and maybe it would slow them down. The way some of the fellows ride that I have observed, seems they are under the influence of something. Maybe thats why the t- shirts say "NO FEAR" on the backs of them. One guy hit a stump and the handle bars caught him you know where. Laid him up a while then he hit a disc that was in the weeds, broke the leg between ankle and knee, pins and plates installed. Did that slow him down? No way. I am not against 4 wheelers, but they have a place/purpose. Not on my property or anyone else's private property.

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FARMALLSM

02-17-2004 19:03:28

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Mac, 02-17-2004 17:23:03

HAD PROBLEM WITH SNOWMOBLIES GOING ACROSS MY NEW BLACKTTOP DRIVE,DRIVE CLEATS TEARING IT UP AFTER I REMOVE SNOW. FOLLOWED TRACKS TO OFFENDERS PLACE, HE'S GOT FIVE ACRES. DID DONUTS IN HIS FRONT YARD,GUY CAME RUNNING OUT YELLING SHOWED HIM NO TRESSPASSING SIGN ASK HIM IF HE COULD READ, HE SAID YES. ASKED HIM WHY HE CAME ON MY PROPERTY AND DAMAGED MY DRIVE, IDIOT SAID HE CAN'T RIDE ON THE ROAD CAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL. GO FIGURE.

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Jim

02-17-2004 16:22:27

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

If your continue to have the problems with 4 wheelers,you need to contact the county sheriff's department and if they want to do nothing ask them for a report on, then take it to your local State's Attorneys office with pictures of the damage and ask them to swear out a warrant on the charges of "destruction of private property" they may not be able to tresspass, but if they damage anything, then that is the same as throwing a brick through your winder and then having nothing done. Tresspassing is an area where the law kinda turns into chickensh*#. But when you start filing destruction charges, the 4 wheelers have a lot differnet out look on life if they are looking criminal charges haunting them the rest of their life, even if is not a felony. What makes this whole thing bad is if the dipsticks get hurt, who is the first one to get a lawsuit against them for theri injuries???? Rock salt also works good as a deterant.(just kiddin)

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Brian G. Ny

02-17-2004 16:45:57

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Jim, 02-17-2004 16:22:27

That salt rusts the heii out of the barrel if it ain't cleaned right away. LOL

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GunNut

02-17-2004 17:38:12

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Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Brian G. Ny, 02-17-2004 16:45:57

That sounds like the voice of experiance

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rhudson

02-17-2004 16:22:00

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

when i went to the law about one of my new neighbors throwing their trash from their property across the fence into my pasture. i was asked if i had up a no dumping sign. i put one up (used my ar15 to punch the holes in the sign so i could screw the sign to a post) my wife said "you know the police will probably pick you up for that" i said "for what? using a power tool" don't expect the police to help you. you will have to be your own detective.

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Dieselrider

02-17-2004 16:10:12

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

I don't know how your state handles this but in Pa. you have to have it posted if you want to keep people out. This does not keep everyone out but it does keep out the ones with any decency and respect for other peoples property. Those that don't won't obey the signs or the law either for that matter. Things like this make me wonder what goes through someones head. They're out riding accross land they don't own and haven't asked permission to be on, and they come to a fence that someone else put there, to just destroy or damage it just because they didn't feel like going around. I am sure there are alot of atv and snowmobile riders that respect others property and would treat it with the same care they would their own property but, those ding-a-lings that don't really make it bad.

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DumOleBob

02-17-2004 16:08:32

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

Signs smigens - that's a bunch of bull. You should call Bubba's boss. Tresspassing is one thing - cutting fences is entirely different. Keepo after those Bas#ar@s...

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Archie

02-17-2004 16:07:20

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

Hello Ray J. Two years ago i had trouble with some kids on a private lane going to one of their house. They was throwing beer bottles and cans in my pasture. Talked to the kids course they wasn't doing it. Talked to the parents at the house they got all puffed up. Went to the local sheriff he took care of it. I think if you can catch them you can put some heat on them. Good luck. Archie in southwest missouri

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Vern-MI

02-17-2004 16:06:38

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

In Michigan if the property is fenced or marked "No Tresspassing" and the person enters the property without permission they can be prosecuted for tresspassing. If the property is unmarked and has no fence they must leave immediately when and if the owner asks them too, otherwise they are tresspassing. It doesn't matter whether they have lost a dog or chasing a shot deer or whatever.

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Bill Smith

02-18-2004 10:10:42

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Vern-MI, 02-17-2004 16:06:38

In my state, if a legal hunter is tracking a deer wounded on property they have permission to hunt on and can verify it (blood trail, ext.) he has the right to track,kill, and remove that animal on your property by way of foot traffic only. You can ask him to leave, and he might have to momentarilly leave long enough to get the game warden. There might be some additional regulations regarding his fire arm while he is on your property, but it is his right to persue the deer.

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Ken

02-17-2004 16:01:27

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

I lived just outside city limits & have a nice sized lard which I like to keep nice . I have a neighbor that thought nothing about coming up & doing wheelies & front wheel lifts which tore my grass out by the roots of course . He just laugh at me & say well you ride you truck , mower , tractor in your yard . It took another land owner doctor to tell him to stay out of his woods or prosecution would take place before this guy got the hint that we didn't like it . He has no yard himself , so he said to me that I had such a large yard he didn't see why he couldn't ride in it . I told him taht he shouldn't have bought the thing if he had no land to ride on . I asked him why he didn't go buy some acreage for that purpose . His reply was : there's enough people have more land then they need so why can't they share it with the 4 wheelers . People today have no respect for others property at all . Needless to say that guy hasn't spoken to me for a year now . Oh well life goes on .

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Ben in KY

02-17-2004 18:47:14

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Ken, 02-17-2004 16:01:27

ken,
Why would you want to speak to someone like that anyway ?

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Wide Open

02-17-2004 17:50:50

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Ken, 02-17-2004 16:01:27

You have a nice size lard which you like to keep nice? Why would they want to trespass on that? LMAO

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Dieselrider

02-17-2004 16:15:50

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Ken, 02-17-2004 16:01:27

That has been my thought on these for years. If you have no where to ride one don't buy one. It's not rocket science. I hope he is staying out of your yard now too.

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gag

02-17-2004 15:59:25

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

I once had a similar problem and I solved it with 16D nails in a 2x6 covered with leaves. This works if you know where they plan to tresspass.

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Mac

02-17-2004 17:43:21

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to gag, 02-17-2004 15:59:25

a harrow laid upside down in the weeds works also.

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Again

02-17-2004 15:22:15

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

Oh no here comes the gun stories again!

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Larry in Tn

02-17-2004 14:11:19

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

A bunch of space has be used concerning dog's not being on their owners property, however, the danger of human's injuring or killing themselves while trespassing is a lot more worrysome than doggy poop. I have no problem with 4-wheeler's except I don't want to be sued if he or she picks my property to do something dumb.
Larry

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old

02-17-2004 14:00:58

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Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to RayJ., 02-17-2004 13:39:31

I did this summer but here in Missouri we have a purple paint law, which is if you paint trees etc with purple paint every 100 yards its as good as signs. That and when they where raiseing cain, I went out and stopped them, but if I hadn't shot my 44 mag in the air they where just going to blow by me. I also called the law and I told him I had shot and he said it was in my rights to do so as long as it was to warn them.

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onlytony

02-17-2004 17:28:39

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Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to old, 02-17-2004 14:00:58

MESQUITE
Plant some mesquite some place they may go, they will get tired of fixing flats. When mesquite is
small it wont bother a tractor tire but I can tell
you first hand it will put a hole in a motorcycle
tire, that is another story. Let me know if want
some seeds. If you dont have it in your area dont
worry that stuff will grow on the moon.

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02-18-2004 08:21:10

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Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to onlytony, 02-17-2004 17:28:39

No one in their right mind would start the plague of mesquite trees in their pasture. Mesquite is the lowest form of life on earth, it aint even good for smoking meat. It spreads like wildfire and is costly and very time consuming to control, impossible to get rid of totally once it has a hold. What a lame solution to this guys trouble.

I have my opinion to what to do to keep scum from cutting fence and trespassing but it involves very violent and graphic description and the "thin skins" on this site would surely be offended. That kinda sh** is not gonna happen on my land or leased land where I run animals while I am still breathing, PERIOD. Right is right, destroying anothers property is wrong and when you do that at least where I live, you run your risks. The law here kinda appreciates the people policing themselves and while they don't promote it, they are pretty good about seeing things how they should be, not always how they really are.

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GPWT

02-18-2004 18:00:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to KX, 02-18-2004 08:21:10

I have a solution for mesquite: it's called Ohio. It's been to cold for anything (even mesquite) to survive.

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02-18-2004 11:51:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to KX, 02-18-2004 08:21:10

I person I can respect, Cannot stand irresponsible people. The way I see it, old west justice always seems to solve all problems.

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Jonathan

02-17-2004 19:10:14

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Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to onlytony, 02-17-2004 17:28:39

what is Mesquite?, Is Mesquite the same as thorn apples, AKA crab apples?. We have those, but they grow up into trees which have long large needle like thorns and produce a very sour tasting apple.

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onlytony

02-18-2004 02:01:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to Jonathan, 02-17-2004 19:10:14

Mesquite wood is used to flavor BBQ. When you BBQ
put a small piece or two in with the charcoals.
Mesquite is considered something you dont want to
have on your place because after many years it will grow into a tree and then the thorns may get
to be around four inches long and that will blow
a tractor tire. It can also be difficult to kill,
you pretty much have to poison it with special
poison for mesquite or to totaly dig it up roots
and all. These trees dont have any fruit just some of them will have long seeds like a giant string bean. No matter how small they are they
are ready to blow a motorcycle or 4-wheeler tire
and that is one reason you just cant avoid them.

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Jonathan

02-18-2004 17:47:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-wheelers trespassing in reply to onlytony, 02-18-2004 02:01:01

thanks, I didn't have a clue what Mesquite was other than I see it alot on BBQ sauce bottles. I'd say thorn apple needles get to be atleast 2" long and will pierce a tractor tire if they enter just right or if your not running atleast 6ply tires. A lighter than 6ply tire will easily be punctured, I have been there and found out the hard way. Thorn apples are nasty things to cut down and deal with, and they aren't really good for anything other than deer like to eat them.

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