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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT: loose Dogs

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KURT (mi)

02-16-2004 02:27:21




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I wrote my neighbor a letter and mailed it yesterday. (The dog is a Doberman too by the way)The letter said the following: Hey Buddy, Keep your dog on your property, I dont like your dog barking at me while I am on my own land, I dont pay high taxes to pick up crap from your dog, If your dog were to bite me or a family member you would be sued Heavily, Either keep your dog in your yard or get rid of the dog. (the end) My wife says I am being too rude with the letter and that I should call animal control. (The local or country government may only issue the guy a ticket) I think of that like a speeding ticket, not very effective. He should get the letter by Tuesday. I did not put my name on the letter, I want him to guess who sent it. Hopefully this will work. Thanks for letting me vent some steam.

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jim

02-17-2004 16:57:49




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
If you have a dog coming on your property, you had better make sure you do not have a leaking radiator hose on your car, animals like the sweet taste of antifreeze and it might hurt them.



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Nolan

02-17-2004 06:35:19




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Congratulations on one of the dumbest letters written. If it's as obnoxious as your post makes it seem, you've made an enemy. You've also red flagged yourself for civil liability and criminal charges should the dog disapear or get hurt in any way, ever.



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fixerupper

02-16-2004 18:40:13




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the chance of you getting sued if you do it wrong. If you do have to resort to shooting the dog, do not do it on any public road right of way or public property of any kind. The dog is bothering you on your own private property and that is where it should be put down. My dad got sued for shooting a neighbor's nasty German Shepherd because he shot it in the public road ditch and not on the private property the dog was causing the trouble on. The neighbor eventually dropped the suit but my dad still had lawyer fees.

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.410.

02-16-2004 13:23:36




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
shoot. shovel. stup up



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Mark T.

02-17-2004 07:29:17




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to .410., 02-16-2004 13:23:36  
Thats the smartest advise I've heard yet!



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easy boy

02-16-2004 12:59:20




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Hey, Aren't you the same guy who was riding his 4 wheeler on the neighbors field with out permission and didn't see anything wrong about it ???



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PAT

02-16-2004 12:08:54




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
WHY KILL THE DOG? THE IDIOT NEIGHBOR WILL JUST GET ANOTHER ONE AND YOU WILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AGAIN, IF HE IS THAT IRRESPONSIBLE. YOU CALL THE COPS ENOUGH AND THE COPS WILL GET SICK AND TIRED OR DEALING WITH THE IDIOT AND START ISSUING CITATIONS. THE IDIOT NEIGHBOR WILL GET THE MESSAGE WHEN IT FINALLY COSTS HIM ENOUGH. HE IS THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE PUNISHED, NOT THE ANIMAL WHO DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER. IF THE ANIMAL ATTACKS, HOWEVER, THAT IS A DIFFERENT STORY. THEN YOU HAVE TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE A PROBLEM DOCUMENTED THROUGH A SERIES OF POLICE REPORTS. THAT WAY IF YOU EVER DO HAVE TO KILL THE ANIMAL OR GET ATTACKED YOU'LL HAVE PLENTY OF PROOF TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM A LAWSUIT AND AMMUNITION IF YOU NEED TO SUE.

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jason B.

02-16-2004 10:32:24




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
SHOOT IT! end of story.



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Mike M

02-16-2004 09:51:52




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
I have a similar problem with my neighbor.Thier first dog a mean Rottwieler finally got hit on the road, 2nd replacement dog same breed very very large but friendly died from old age,3rd replacment a puppy now but I expect more of the same.They keep them in the garage but let them out and don't watch them.We tried being nice and that got us nowhere,called the law as we have a leash law,they talk to them do nothing but tell who complained makeing nieghbor madder.

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KX

02-16-2004 09:49:14




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
I had a neighbor with dogs that chased my livestock. Not only did I kill his dogs, I took his wife from him.



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bob

02-16-2004 20:56:20




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KX, 02-16-2004 09:49:14  
that'll teach you!



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DL

02-16-2004 17:34:12




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KX, 02-16-2004 09:49:14  
shame you had to kill the dogs



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thurlow

02-16-2004 14:24:31




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KX, 02-16-2004 09:49:14  
Who got the better of that deal???? I'd love to hear his "side"..... ..... ..



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KX

02-17-2004 12:02:41




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to thurlow, 02-16-2004 14:24:31  
looooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ong story. You boys crack me up.



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gcs

02-16-2004 09:17:16




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
I think some of you are missing the point, you don't tell anyone or have witnesses to the deed if you need to make a dog or cat dissapear. Being a "man" and confronting someone,sending a letter or phone call,calling the cops or animal control,only gets the owner pissed at YOU.THEN if something happens to the dog you get the blame if you did anything or not.The owner already knows the animal is a pain and he doesn't care. So what if the dog is the one to be punished instead of the owner,isn't that better than starting a war with someone you got to live near for a long time? If the dog is truly a danger or costing you,suck it up and take care of the problem,then keep your mouth shut! "Sorry Bud,havn't seen that dog in day's,hope you find him."

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Irv from Michigan

02-16-2004 08:38:19




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
I have had problems with a loose dog killing my livestock - the neighbor put him down that day. We are still good neighbors. Believe me, I know how to be a real PIA! But it is better to call the guy up and discuss your MUTUAL problem. If you are reasonable, most people are too. A lot of crazy people end up in jail. It is better to get along than to fight. And this from a guy that always preferred shirts with collars - hides the foreskin! Irv

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Dave H (MI)

02-16-2004 08:05:55




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
I never cease to be apalled at the level of anger and hate some of us express toward our neighbors.
Your letter should not have been so nasty nor should it have been anonymous. In fact, I do not believe it should ever have been a letter.

Our approach here, and we are rich with rude neighbors, is to contact the neighbor in person. We do it in a friendly and casual way and only get pointed if the neighbor starts to react badly.
Additional neighbor contacts are only made if the neighbor is still being "neighborly". If the problem occurs again we contain the animal in a building or pen (easy to trick them into these) and call animal control to pick up. 90% of the time the situation is solved without us ending up with a hostile neighbor situation. We rarely have damage to livestock because our fences are good and the dogs can't get in, you should check into same. An occasional dead chicken is a part of life, not a call to war. I may be being a little harsh, but a lot of innocent pets get killed each year unjustifiably.

Frankly, if you believed in what you were doing you would have signed the letter.

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KURT (mi)

02-16-2004 08:28:13




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Dave H (MI), 02-16-2004 08:05:55  
Frankly I shouldnt have to do a $*#$ thing, it is his dog and his problem and his dog crap, not mine. I am being nice by writing the letter Before I call the cops and/or animal control. I also dont want this redneck yahoo damaging anything of mine.



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Larry in TN

02-17-2004 04:08:38




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi) , 02-16-2004 08:28:13  
Isn't it great how much we can get worked up over NOTHING. A little pile of doggy-do aint no world shaking event nor does it drive property values down. Although I might by birth be a redneck yahoo such as you mentioned, I lived forty four of my sixty four years in Waterford, Mi. I'm familiar with the dog on my lawn thing. Not really a reason to harm the pooch. Work on bigger problem's and don't sweat the small change.
Larry

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Dave H (MI)

02-16-2004 11:14:28




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi) , 02-16-2004 08:28:13  
Sounds like you have a little problem with the "redneck yahoo" in addition to the dog (?)
Seems like you could work it out. That's all I was trying to say.



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RT

02-16-2004 12:14:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Dave H (MI), 02-16-2004 11:14:28  
Dave, just what do you mean by the term Redneck Yahoo? I really don`t know what you mean. RT



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Rusty Jones

02-16-2004 18:14:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to RT, 02-16-2004 12:14:17  
Had a "grass widow" move in across the road, she had 2 cocker spaniels. Every morning, she'd let the dogs out, and they'd come across to my yard, and decorate the grass. Then, she'd call them back in, and leave for work. After many requests to keep them in her yard, my wife began pickin' the poop up and piling it on the porch where the widder went in the house! Didn't take long for her to get the message, especially after she found bee-bees in the dogs fur! And, she fenced them in! And, another little hound always used my bushes for a toilet, until i scared the pee-waddlin' out of him by almost squashing him flat with my pickup! He never came back. And, a guy lived back behind me on another street. His dog always had to poop when it got to my yard! After a spell of that, i took out my 12 guage, walked out in the yard, and told the guy that if his dog squatted down to poop, he was dead meat! After that, the guy walked his dog down the other side of the road! (I meant the dog, but he got the idea i meant him!) Had a rabid dog one night--one shot from a 30-06 took care of him. Chief of police said: Shoot, bury, keep mouth shut!"

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Dave H (MI)

02-16-2004 13:33:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to RT, 02-16-2004 12:14:17  
RT, read all the posts in the order they came in.
I put "redneck yahoo" in quotation marks because I was QUOTING the previous post. I didn't say it.
He did. The guy complaining about the dog called his neighbor a "redneck yahoo". I'm not sure what HE meant by it....but he is a very agreeable type, why don't you ask him?



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KURT (mi)

02-16-2004 14:17:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Dave H (MI), 02-16-2004 13:33:27  
What I meant by redneck yahoo is that this guy lets his dog roam and crap all over, pushes his snow across the road and leaves half of it in the road, and blocks part of my approach to the road with snow.



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Brent in Iowa

02-17-2004 04:35:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 14:17:28  
Now you're getting somewhere. My freakin' neighbor lives in the first place off the blacktop so he doesn't even drive past his own house in the morning. The rest of us (5 or 6 houses) on that mile have to drive over his frozen chunks of snow and ice that he negligently leaves on the road when he (illegally) pushed his snow across and down the road. He has the ditch so full (6 feet high) now that it drifts and actually closes the road down if it gets windy. He also pays $500 every summer to have chloride put on the road in front of his place to keep the dust down but the rest of us have to drive over the washboard it creates (because county won't grade the chloride area) all stinking summer. Whew..that felt good.

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jim

02-17-2004 16:47:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Brent in Iowa, 02-17-2004 04:35:18  
Ask your moron for a neighbor who his insurnace company is, because it has damaged your car and he is legally responsible for any and all damage to your car. 4 years ago I had a lady call the law, got ahold of me, threatened law suit becsue my truck supposedly threw a rock up of her van and dented the hood, we wer going down the interstate at 70 MPH, how she could prove it was me, I have no idea, my insurance company paid 1200.00 to fix this ignorant womans hood.

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DL

02-16-2004 17:36:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 14:17:28  
yup... 'ats a redneck!



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Mac

02-16-2004 15:31:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 14:17:28  
You fellas are describing my neighbor better every day.



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Dave H (MI)

02-16-2004 18:43:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Mac, 02-16-2004 15:31:13  
I can go you one better. I just got an anonymous letter today. Some yahoo complaining about my Doberman.



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lenray

02-16-2004 07:36:06




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Hello Kurt
This has worked for me--befriend the wayword dog feed it when it comes over--have you ever ended up with a broken sledge hammer handle. While the big fella is eating place the handle in the place where the head and neck connect -no noise no bark.
I have grandchildren over a few days each week for a few hours and will not take a chance especially on certain breeds of dogs.
len in michigan also

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DumOleBob

02-16-2004 07:26:12




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
I can see how this would really make a guy mad!

However, to get serious for a second, you'd better let your local law enforcers handle this problem. In most places after a ticket or two, if he doesn't control his dog a judge will do it for him.

Why get yourself in the middle of it? All this talk about using guns, etc. may sound manly right now, but it won't be when the two of you come to blows and get hauled to the slammer! This is a job for the cops!

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Jeff

02-20-2004 00:26:23




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to DumOleBob, 02-16-2004 07:26:12  
If I hear one more poster tell a private citzen to let the cops do it I am gonna PUKE! Here is another good way to fix a stupid dumb pain in the butt crummy dog. Do you ever notice that when you go to a good old car junk yard they always have a couple of REAL MEAN dogs in cages or chained with a battle ship anchor chain? I can tell you how to fix your neighbors dog so it will be so mean HE will get rid of it. The secret is mix some GUN POWDER with it's food. Not smokeless but good old flint lock type gun powder. The potassium nitrate does a real good job on it's brain cells! This time of year just freeze a load in a big lump of canned dog food and put it where his mutt will eat it.

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KURT (mi)

02-16-2004 08:17:57




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to DumOleBob, 02-16-2004 07:26:12  
I Would never shoot a dog unless it was ready to attack me or a family member, barking doesnt mean it is going to bite you. I only know of past experience of my old house that calling the cops takes time, (has to issue out many tickets) because the guy would get a verbal warning the first time, (likely) a real ticket the second time a hundred bucks, then three hundred bucks the third time and then maybe jail for the forth time if I was lucky.

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Matt Clark

02-16-2004 07:22:14




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Kurt:

I sympathize with you. Here, (I'm out in the sticks) there's no "animal control" except that which humans enforce. You've done your civic duty...warned them about the dog. Next step is yours. On my property, they get one warning and then they vaporize...quietly. (Dogs that is, not owners.) Cats get no warning....



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RT

02-16-2004 06:55:31




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Kurt, I had the same problem awhile back. My nieghbor had two rotts that would come over and kill my chickens,run my goats and once they got in with my horses. Tore one of them up. I went to him and asked very nicely if he could contain his dogs. Lasted about a week and it started all over again. We don`t have animal contol out here in the country. One morning I was woke up about 5 in the morning to see them attacking one of my goats. Before I could get out there they killed it. I shot and killed both of them right there. Now there resting peaceably under a great big pile of horse manure. The guy asked if I have seen his dogs and I said nope I thought you had them contained. To this day he still don`t know where his dogs are. Some times you have to do what you have to do. RT

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KURT (mi)

02-16-2004 08:13:41




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to RT, 02-16-2004 06:55:31  
I like the way think, and act. Dont get caught and dont tell anybody that you dropped his dogs. You might have those useless A$$***** after you, the animal rights folks.



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Mac

02-16-2004 06:54:28




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
My neighbor gets mad if he is corrected in any way. 50+ and is as im- mature as a 2 year old. He is never wrong. Regardless. But I don't kiss ****.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. But he is critical of everything else. Some people take care of their dogs just like they take care of the kids. Let them run. Maybe they just dont know any better or dont care. I just go back to a saying I saw someplace, Bless the children and the beasts, they have no voice and have no choice. Call animal control enough and maybe the message will finally get thru.

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JF

02-16-2004 06:08:38




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
You make some valid points on what to say to the neighbor Pitch, but in your own words a real man would not let his dog live in someone elses yard.
I know here on the forums we love to talk about are guns on rec. vehicles and pets,but here after the second time it will cost the ower 500,if you call animal control.
I would not worry about p*ssing him off because it dont seem hes worried about you.So why waste your time knocking on his door.

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KURT (mi)

02-16-2004 08:10:56




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to JF, 02-16-2004 06:08:38  
Thanks



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Mike

02-16-2004 03:08:20




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Shoot him and drag him off. If the guy is not responsible enough to care for his animal including the whereabout of it he doesn't need it. Been there done that.



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Pitch

02-16-2004 02:56:38




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 Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to KURT (mi), 02-16-2004 02:27:21  
Have you talked to this neighbor about his dog? If I were to get a letter like that the only thing that you would have accomplished was to P2ss me off. Things like that tend to make me real stubborn and ornery even if I am in the wrong. A real man would go up to his neighbor knock on his door and say something to the effect of,"Hey buddie,I realize that you and your family love your dog, but I do not. I will not have your animal intimidating my family and myself when we are on our own property. I am going to have to insist that you keep him under your control at all times." If nothing improves then call animal control or pop the dog a couple of times in the butt with a BB gun.

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John K

02-16-2004 10:56:22




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Pitch, 02-16-2004 02:56:38  
The real issue is responcibility. Some people have pets that are not looked after. My son wants a dog. He is not responcible enough to look after it, by that I mean feed it,groom it and most importantly spend time with it. A lot of dogs start out as puppy love, a novelty, when it growes up it cant do no wrong, isn't trained and has a free for all especially if it get no attention. Also most dogs end up with the same attitude as their owners. Just like you said you may be in the wrong but you would hate to get that letter. BE A REAL MAN suck it up and BE REPONCIBLE for your own actions as well as your property. I just finished off a law suit, 5 screws holding my anckle together and a 7/16 titanium rod from my anckle to my knee, (broke the anckle in two spots, tibula and fibula) all because of a dog running loose and attacking my motorcycle as I was leaving my house. He tried to deny that it was his dog, but I and ambulance crew seen the dog at the site and later in the front window of their house. Am I bitter, you bet I haven't been able to run since the accident 3.5 years, don't take walks, don't hunt any more, efects my work as it is hard to climb ladders and shoooting pain in my foot all because someone was NOT responcible. By the way he paid 1200.00 fines before the accident for having his dogs run loose. I believe his house insurance will go up after this settlement.

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IHC Red

02-16-2004 06:41:11




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Pitch, 02-16-2004 02:56:38  
I like the second part of your solution, but it presumes that you can garner their attention long enough to listen (some people don't give a rip about your "discomfort" and will not hesitate to endlessly tell you so... in spite of any diplomacy in your approach to them. .and.or. Perhaps they don't have the capacity or desire to be �nice� to you and do what they "should".

If I could have given myself advice back when my wonderful neighbors moved in... keep a written log and photograph (with date and time) every single offense from them. Let the evidence accumulate in your favor for a while. Then seek a competent atty. and slam it to 'em. You are a law abiding citizen. Judicial action with support from law enforcement may be required to ultimately put the matter to rest.

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Crazyin Oklahoma

02-16-2004 06:31:35




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 Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Pitch, 02-16-2004 02:56:38  
Never mind the BB gun, pop him once in the head with a 30.06 and be done with it. If the neighbor complains pop him the same way.



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Jared in VT

02-16-2004 07:07:40




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Crazyin Oklahoma, 02-16-2004 06:31:35  
Crazy, What you say in this case is not funny or interesting or cute, or relevent. It's not even good advise because a 30.06 makes too much noise. I appreciate your handle and your potential condition. But your brand of insanity will land ole Kurt here in the slammer with hundreds of other poor slobs who took your advise. The spector of "...if you were a man.." is it's own pile of crap. Often, the real man, takes no action at all. What you can do and what you should do are rarely the same thing. Be cool out there, Jared

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CrazyinOklahoma

02-16-2004 20:15:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Jared in VT, 02-16-2004 07:07:40  
That is the main advantage of having papers saying I am crazy from the government. I will and have shot peoples dogs and once the dogs owner also.



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crazier than oklahoma

02-17-2004 06:34:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to CrazyinOklahoma, 02-16-2004 20:15:08  
sounds like one carefully placed shot will take care of crazy in oklahoma.



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Ken

02-16-2004 07:04:28




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Crazyin Oklahoma, 02-16-2004 06:31:35  
Gee this almost sounds like Road Rage . I have neighbors with very large dogs . I just keep cleaning up the poop & putting a dash of lime on the spot ( it's good fertilizer ) . I have one neighbor that has a dog he lets go loose once in awhile . Comes in my yard & barks at me . I just tell it to move on & he does . But this same neighbor hollers about my house dog barking from my yard at him if he's next to my yard . Just try being a friendly neighbor . Someone has to bend unless you aren't willing . Lifes too short , enjoy it . Talking about shooting someone can get you into hot water now days ; so be careful .

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Crazyin Oklahoma

02-16-2004 20:23:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Ken, 02-16-2004 07:04:28  
Who do you think gave it the name Road Rage. Back in the early 80's when I was still driving truck carring a gun was standard and using it on a car that caused a problem was normal for me. Seemed safer to shoot at them over slapping them with a 45 ft trailer (that knocks a full size car 285 feet off the road in Mississippi). As far as neighbors when they have been here as long as I have I might respect them. Nearest one is 1/2 mile and they are still new to the area (only been here since 67). Any dog I catch in pasture with my cattle or my horses are nothing but a target to me. That goes the same for the coyote hunters who came in on me a few weeks ago. Drove in walked out. But when you are certified crazy it makes a difference here, even the sheriff calls and ask permission to come on my land.

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steveormary

02-16-2004 10:06:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to Ken, 02-16-2004 07:04:28  

When I was about 8-10 yr. old neighbor drove into our yard and when he got out of the car he had his 12 guage with him. He told Dad some dogs had been running his cows and he wasnt sure but thought one of them looked like ours. Dad reached for the gun and shot our dog. Wasnt going to argue or say no our dog wouldnt do that. Dog was a Heinz 57.



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goofus

02-17-2004 16:51:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to steveormary, 02-16-2004 10:06:02  
My dog named Bengi never allowed another dog to potty in my yard. She was killed by a wreckless driver while crossing the road to use the potty in a neighbors yard. goof



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nancy

02-21-2004 20:50:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: loose Dogs in reply to goofus, 02-17-2004 16:51:00  
you should report to the sheriff or whoever enforces leash laws, and bug them until they do something, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If they continue to do it, then all bets are off, if they don't have a fenced enclosure of some kind they are idiots and deserve what they get. just don't get caught it would be a hassle.
hope the letter works!



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