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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier?

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Bill Oakes NY

02-12-2004 17:56:34




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My brother and I are renovating a nice little old farm house. We have gutted it, removed all the wood lathe and plaster, insulated the 3 1/2 in stud cavities with fiberglass. We are in upstate NY, fairly cold winters. Should we use a poly vapor barrier between the insulation and the sheetrock? I have heard horror stories about soaking wet, moldy sheetrock. I would appreciate your best advice as I don't want this to turn to disaster. Please explain your whys or why nots, so we can learn. Thanks.

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Jared in VT

02-13-2004 09:15:53




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
Hey Bill, Sounds like you're having a good time. Poly sheeting is great for covering the corn bunker and stopping over-spray, but it does not belong within nine row's of rotten sill plates in any home. Apply the insulation between the studding, and fill in all the spaces and cavities as best you can with bits and pieces of fiberglass. You want as complete and unbroken blanket of insulation as you can achieve. (run your plumbing and wiring first if you can) Pencil mark your studing on the floor and ceiling and then apply either Tyvek, or Typar brand building paper. Staple it to the studs with 3/8 or 1/4" staples to make it easier to move around for the eneviatble adjustments. If you're feeling clever, duct tape it around your outlet and switch boxes to insure a good seal. (this will also stop the fiberglass dust) Tyvek and Typar are semi-permeable membrain's (like Gore-Tex) that provide a vapor barrier while still allowing your house to breath. Any plastic, to include vinyal siding, stops this natural, seasonal process and promotes rot. I've restored and re-silled a number of 200+ year old homes and barns. It give's you a chance to see what works and what doesn't. But hey, what do I know?! Get the book, Renovating Old Homes by George Nash. (Taunton Press) Good text and great pictures. Don't quit! Jared

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Slowpoke

02-13-2004 23:49:12




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 Re: Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Jared in VT, 02-13-2004 09:15:53  
I've seen Tyvek on the outside of buildings before sheathing or stucco is installed. If fiberglass insulation is used, should it have a 'vapor barrier' or be unfaced?
I don't see Kraft paper facing or aluminum facing on fiberglass any more, only unfaced and plastic wrapped. Is the plastic wrap considered 'vapor barrier'?



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Robert in W. Mi

02-14-2004 07:11:30




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 Re: Re: Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier in reply to Slowpoke, 02-13-2004 23:49:12  
The plastic that fiberglass is wrapped in, is NOT the vapor berr. That plastic is only there to make it easier to handle the fiberglass. If you look at it, it has holes in it to let it breath.

In a cold climate the vapor berr. needs to be on the warm side of the wall, under the sheet rock, and i always use 6 mil..

"If" you live where you don't have many heat days, then you don't put the vapor berr. on the inside. In fact, in warm high humid costal area's many builders then put the vapor berr. on the outside under the sideing.

Robert

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walt

02-13-2004 05:45:25




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
There is better stuff than poly out there. Looks more like aluminum foil, (space blanket) but does the same purpose.



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RWK in WI

02-13-2004 05:38:08




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
Here in northern Wisconsin it is standard to put vapor barier on the inside / heated side of the insulation to keep moisture from getting into the insulation. If the moisture gets into the insulation it works out until it gets cold and then freezes. When this happens you loose insulation value and when it melts you have water in the walls - read as rot and mold.
When people talk of problems with unheated buildings is where they are sealed tightly but over basement or crawl spaces that allow moisture to come up into the unheated building and work into the drywall and freeze.
If a building is unheated it should be vented to allow the moisture to escape. A general rule of thumb is 1 sq. ft of vent for 1000 sq. ft of floor space. You could also leave the trap door to the attic open a little. Just don't trap damp air in an unheated building. I know this is long but I hope it helps you.

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luckydog

02-13-2004 05:22:10




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
Hi Bill- How"s are you & yours, good I hope. I have a question for this forum. I see that you said put the vapor barrier on the warm side of the insulation, if the insulation does not have a paper on it why not put the barrier on the out side because of the sweat against the cold walls? I would think that you would have wet insulation if you didn"t and that would cause problems. Please explain!! luckydog

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Bus Driver

02-13-2004 05:42:09




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 Re: Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to luckydog, 02-13-2004 05:22:10  
Vapor barrier on the cold side of the wall is a guaranteed way to get condensed moisture trapped in the wall. Rotting will surely occur. Vapor barriers always go on the warm (in the winter) side of the wall.



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G.King

02-13-2004 05:42:08




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 Re: Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to luckydog, 02-13-2004 05:22:10  
NO----- ---put on warm side----- was called to replace one piece of siding. cut it out. boards were rotten, ended up taking all siding and boards from there to bottom. cut out bad 2/4's, insulation was put in backwards in that area. where it was in right, there was no problems .



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Gordy MN

02-13-2004 05:18:09




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
I have talked to several people in my area about this. It depends if you heat the building in the winter or not. If a building is unheated in the winter, use no misture barrier. If building is heated in the winter, use a barrier. In quite a few buildings (unheated in winter) people have had to take off sheet rock and remove moisture barrier. That cured the problem of moisture in the insullation. I am not sure why this is, but that is what people tell me. Gordy MN

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Duke(WNY)

02-13-2004 03:30:15




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
Only 1 vapor barrier - if you have 2 the moisture will be trapped between them.



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alm

02-13-2004 03:56:58




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 Re: Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Duke(WNY), 02-13-2004 03:30:15  
one yes,on the warm side of the insulation
Al



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KURT

02-13-2004 02:30:38




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 Re: OT - Should I use a poly vapor barrier? in reply to Bill Oakes NY, 02-12-2004 17:56:34  
As long as the fiberglass has a vapor barrier you wont need poly sheeting.



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