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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter

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Randy

02-10-2004 07:28:17




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I need to cement a post in for my satallite TV dish. The weather here is in the twenties. I have been told to add salt to the mix. How much salt to an 80lb bag? Also what would be a good way of insulating it until it sets up? I was thinking about a space heater under some plastic. Would appreciate anyother ideas,




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Mike

02-11-2004 18:41:40




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
Up untill last week I worked in the precast concrete prison industry. We were pouring prison cells outside in New Hampshire in 5 below zero weather. The forms are insulated, and we cover the concrete with a tarp, and run a few heaters overnight to help. The concrete in normally hard enough in 14-16 hours that we can pull it out. Dean Minnisota is right, you should be fine with out any heat. I would just cover the concrete with a tarp to help keep the heat the concrete gives off in, and to make sure water doesnt get on it. Although if I were you I would wait till spring. Concrete work in the cold is no fun...

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Gordon in IN

02-11-2004 18:17:47




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
I saw a post for a basket ball goal set in concrete in "very cold" weather at a Church recreation area. The guys doing the work put "thermostatic controled heat tape" all around the inside of the hole and poured the concrete (without any additive or "antifreeze" or "accelerator"). They then put heat tape on top of the concrete and covered it with fiber glass insulation and some scrap sheet metal. Pluged in the heat tape and left it for about three weeks. May have been "overkill", but the concrete did not freeze and it sure cured "hard" and is still in place and solid. Note: this only works where you have constant, dependable power near the area you want to place the post.

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Hayman

02-10-2004 20:33:54




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
Home Dumbo has bags of a special concrete for posts called Post-haste. It sets in about 5 min.



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Dean Minnesota

02-10-2004 19:46:55




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
I work for the highway department as an inspector for road and bridge construction. We build bridges all winter long without using any heat. We use either 3/4" or 1" plywood forms with 2" polystyrene for insulation. If you have a concrete mass of at least 2 feet in all directions, the chemical reaction of the cure will provide enough heat to not allow even the coldest weather to cause any problems. If I remember correctly I think the heat loss after 5 days was about 15 or 20 degrees by which time it is sufficiently cured to prevent frost damage. Most of our concrete piers, and retaining walls are huge compared to what you are doing but the concept is the same.

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kyhayman

02-10-2004 19:34:19




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
Salt, I sure wouldnt as salt will pit concrete. Last I had poured in the winter had Calcium Chloride added, set up over night. The next year I was helping my cousin pour a patio and they plant was running bridge mix. It had CaCl added and we couldnt float a load (10 yards) before it was setting, Made a long day, he poured 100 yards for his pation.



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Keith-OR

02-10-2004 16:31:59




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
I would wait untill it warms up. If cement freezes before it sets up will turn to powder with gravel in it. To speed up the curing process they add more lime to the mix.I made the mistake of pouring to quick one year got a late freeze, had to redo everything. Better to be safe than sorry.
PS. I have my dish mounted to the side of my house. My 2 cents worth



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333

02-10-2004 12:32:41




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
My dish is mounted on a 4 inch pipe stuck in cement about 3 ft deep, If yours heaves or the post moves you will have to recalibrate it , not hard though, take about a minute. could mount temporarilly on a base or side of house and pour cement when it warms up, your call though



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Casey

02-10-2004 09:32:37




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
If you are putting this post down in a hole in the ground and you don't have that much frost in the ground that you can dig, my guess is that you don't need added heat because there will be sufficient ground heat combining with that produced by the cement to prevent freezing. If this is the case a good covering would be all that you need. I have heard that cloride will not effect the quality of the cement and will prevent freezing but it will accelarate the rusting of any metal put into the concrete.

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Randy

02-10-2004 10:18:30




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 Re: Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Casey, 02-10-2004 09:32:37  
I actual chopped down thru about 2 feet of frozen ground before it got easier to dig. I went down about 4 feet so maybe the bottom two feet will cure normally.I don't know how sensitive a dish is to movement of the pole.



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Casey

02-10-2004 11:24:35




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 Re: Re: Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 10:18:30  
My dish works good. The only problems are heavy rain clouds, (knocks it out till the heavy part passes), snow buildup on the dish and I had a willow tree grow into the path, took a while to figure that one out. I have noticed that it will work the same, way down to a signal strength of about 15 to 25 percent. Normal strength is about 89% here.
I have the dish on a treated 4x4 with no concrete in the hole. It stands very solid and has given me no trouble from the pole. It has been in about six years.
Really, the only problem with satelite TV is the programing.

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MT Pockets

02-10-2004 17:30:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Casey, 02-10-2004 11:24:35  
Randy, I think you are overdoing it a bit. I have a 10 ft. dish mounted on a 3" iron pipe in about 3 ft. of concrete and it's tall enough to walk under. The only problem I have is the signal is analog and everything is going digital. Ihave very little programing left. Steve.



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thurlow

02-11-2004 06:22:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winte in reply to MT Pockets, 02-10-2004 17:30:54  
Steve; what're we gonna do? I've had a c-band for many years; haven't watched ANYTHING on network since Fido was a pup, but..... .losing one or two channels every month. Understand there's still "lots of stuff" on the big dish by swapping over to digital????? Guess it's either that or get one of the small dishes..... ...



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Buck

02-10-2004 08:37:37




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
Hi Randy, mix your cement with hot water, then cover with plastic and space heater. Never heard of salt? On the big jobs they do just as I said!



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Randy

02-10-2004 09:01:10




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 Re: Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Buck, 02-10-2004 08:37:37  
How long do I need to keep it heated? Just till it sets up?



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Buck

02-10-2004 09:12:19




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 Re: Re: Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 09:01:10  
For a post, just over night I would think. On the job they require it until the strenght of the concrete comes up, could be 28-days or more, but I'm talking bridges, and footings for buildings. When you are building things like these you can afford all the neat chemicals they add to cement to set it off fast, and there is a bunch of them.



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Robert

02-10-2004 07:38:35




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 Re: O.T. Pouring concrete in Winter in reply to Randy, 02-10-2004 07:28:17  
Don't add salt to your concrete mix! It will have an adverse effect on overall strength. Your better bet would be to insulate and place heat like you said, or better yet, wait until it warms up.



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