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Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it code?

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Brad

02-04-2004 20:30:25




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Twenty years ago I built a storage building and ran #10 copper to it so I could use lights and handtools (180 feet from the main panel in my house.) Recently I ran #6 copper wire to it so I could buy a nice air compressor and now I was thinking about running #8 wire for a circuit just for the tools. Each branch would be protected by a circuit breaker at the main panel and a disconnect switch at the shop. My question is "is this up to code" or is there supposed to be only one line to the shop?

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Brad

02-05-2004 10:51:52




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
Thanks for all the advice. I decided that I will err on the side of safety. I'll disconnect the old line and just use the 60 amp line, and take all the safety precautions suggested in addition to paying an electrician to come out and look at everything. I'll figure out something where I can use the compressor at the house where there is already an available 220 line with nothing on it.



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Friendly Fire

02-05-2004 09:44:44




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
This wiring by internet will get someone killed or a lot of damage done to property. There are many other things to be looked at, like grounding, bonding, ground fault protection, ground rods(how many required), and the list goes on, as you can see it is not as simple as "black goes to black and white goes to white." A lot of the people who respond mean well and are trying to help, but you have to be able to know the good advise from the bad, and if one is a little unsure about something that can be hard to do,and can result in real problems down the line. If you are unsure the best thing would be to hire a QUALIFIED AND LICENSED electrician to do the job. Then you know the job was done right the first time.

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RZ(Wa)

02-05-2004 09:17:28




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
Given the distances to your shop from the main panel and the size of wire planned to be run, be aware the you will probably may incur a voltage drop in the line to the equipment being used ( whether it is a hand drill or a compressor being used doesn't matter). This voltage drop will result with someone repeatedly replacing motors and can quickly add up to more than the cost of installing a sub-panel and running appropriately sized cable from the main.
We can cut corners and make do on our repairs and restorations and they will turn out okay. But I think at least a phone call to the local electrical power company will and a talk with the resident engineer will be of great benefit in terms of immediate SAFETY and future cost. Fom what I've been able to quickly find in the NEC book, your current plan is acceptable according to the exemption in Section 230-3 (now I'll hear from those more familar with the code book than I).

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ShepFL

02-05-2004 06:59:07




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
To save myself time and ensure safety I obtained one of these manuals.

As copied from their website;

"To avoid Code violations the Agricultural Wiring Handbook offers help. The newly released 13th edition provides wiring information for swine buildings, dairy and beef operations, poultry facilities, as well as farm shops, machinery sheds and grain facilities. Contained in 34 separate chapters, the 100-page Handbook also covers farmstead distribution topics, three-phase wiring, grounding and lightning protection, motor circuit requirements and newly-updated wire sizing tables."

Perhaps one can be found at your local Extension office or Ebay.
HTH

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Mike

02-05-2004 06:26:33




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
To do it right, you have to options. 1. Get a new service, seperate from your house to your shop, this way you will have plenty of power, and will have a panel in your shop. The number 2. option is to run a subpanel from your house. This is not as good of an option as the first, but is probobaly cheaper. put a panel in your shop, figure out how many amps you need, as you will have 220 volt. Then make sure that the total amps needed in the shop wont overdraw your house feed. I it doesent, this is what you do. Say you are going to put a 100 amp sub panel in your shop. you install a double pole 100 amp breaker. you will then run your wire from that breaker to feed your main breaker in the panell in your shop. if you run a 100 amp , the code is #2 wire, i usually bump up a size on my projects, just for safty. The best type of wire to run is called URD, rated for underground direct burial, for more saftey, you can run the wire in PVC conduit, pretty cheap insurance, also, about 1 foot above the wire in the trench, you should lay in a electrical caution tape. This is my advice as how to do it. Mike,Union Electrician

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James in MO

02-05-2004 06:03:03




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
I don't know what size breakers you have but it sounds to me like unless you are using 60 amp breakers with your #4 wire you are defeating the purpose of the breaker. Any wire smaller will melt before it trips the breaker and obviously you don't need a 60 Amp breaker to run youR air compressor becasue you will never trip it and you would burn up your motor before it tripped your best bet is to run a sub panel with the correct size wire to you shop Now me personally I like electricity and if I am digging a trench anyway I would go ahead and put a 200 amp service in and forget about then pull your circuits out of that remember to use 12 guage wire for 25 aamp breakers etc. I THINK I would have to reveiw in fact now I am thinking it is #6 for 60 amp I don't use this stuff very often but whatever you do make sure it is obvious to a stranger so he can kill your power if needed I hope this helps

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Ken

02-05-2004 04:38:07




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
Why not run heavy enough wire for a one hundred amp service or even a 200 amp service to your building for a 100 amp service pull 2 #3 for the hot and #4 for the nuetural and #6 for Ground. That would be my opinion, hope it works out for you.



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KURT

02-05-2004 02:04:36




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
What the inspector doesnt know wont hurt him. As long as the lines have breakers it would be okay, but not code I would think.



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buickanddeere

02-05-2004 05:45:25




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 Re: Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is i in reply to KURT, 02-05-2004 02:04:36  
Safety issue for you, your family and emergency response personal. Don't think accidents and fires don't happen. And don't think it will never happen in your shop. Power, gas etc has to have a single shut off point to ensure the scene is rendered safe. Nothing quit like entering the hot zone and/or extracting the injured/dead and have machinery still alive or come to life when "everything was switched off".

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Slowpoke

02-04-2004 23:26:41




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  

I beilieve you will need a subpanel in the shop with one line from the house.



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buickanddeere

02-04-2004 21:49:20




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 Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is it co in reply to Brad, 02-04-2004 20:30:25  
Only one service to a building except for giant structures such as auto assembly plants.



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steveormary

02-05-2004 08:21:57




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 Re: Re: Multiple electric branches to a shop. Is i in reply to buickanddeere, 02-04-2004 21:49:20  
To Kurt and all, What the inspector doesnt know wont hurt him but it sure may hurt you.

Brad,can you come from your meter pole to your shop. Like on a farm with feeds from the meter pole to the separate out buildings.

The book on farm wiring would be good also.



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