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Metal roofing

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Willy

01-29-2004 20:52:10

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What is the proper way to install a metal roof on a house? I have seen where the shingles are taken off and the metal nailed to the roof or strips of wood are nailed to the roof on top of the shingles and the metal nailed to the strips. Are some installers just trying to avoid removing the existing shingles or is there a reason for leaving them there?

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01-30-2004 15:57:22

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

my father had it put on top of his shingles-voided warranty fo tin(50year) but heck that company will not be in business in 20 yeras anyway. It is a well know secret in the metal industry go out of business reincorporate every so often then you do not have to stand behind your product. The strips are used primarily for air circulation. When my shingles are up its tin for me.

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Jared in VT

01-30-2004 10:43:06

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

Hey Fixerupper, I'm with you. That little washer looks like the weak link. When I use those screws, I try to seat them so that the metal washer covers the neoprene completly. The tin roof on my old farmhouse was fastened every 10 inches by 8 penny nail's that had lead washers cast into the nailhead. When they applied the tin roof in the 40's, they did not strip the old cedar shingles and just whacked the nails through the tin. When I stripped this old tin off after 60 years, it was obvious that 50% of the nailing was just floating. But the roof did not leak. The nailing was on top of the ridges of the tin, and it did not leak. So maybe the neoprene washers are just for looks!

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fixerupper

01-30-2004 09:21:54

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

The neoprene washer bothers me some too. The new materials we have to work with today are good, but that washer is exposed to the elements 24-7. I don't know.

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Jim in michigan

01-30-2004 06:49:19

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

There is no need to remove them, just put strips on the roof to make it a lil more level and there ya go,,we had rolled roofing on our garage, that lays flatter then shingles, we just put a new metal roof on it right over the rolled roofing,,I will never use shingles again,we bought the metal at Menards cheaper then I could buy shingles and a lot less work. we put a 24x24 roof on the garage in 6 hours, using 4 people, 2 on the ground handing it up and 2 on the roof,,,Jim

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fixerupper

01-30-2004 06:26:38

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

Whether or not the shingles are left on might be dictated by the pitch and how well the roof is supported. If it already has three or four layers of shingles the extra weight of the new roofing material might make it sag or even worse, collapse if snow load is a problem in your area. Last winter I put steel roofing on my house using 2x4 nailers spaced at 24" over the existing shingles.The roof has a steep pitch and has short, well supported rafters. I figured the three layers of shingles on the house already would be good insulation from summer heat and maybe it would keep the rain noise from coming down into the house. I nailed the 2x4's through the shingles and into the rafters with 40d pole nails. Finding the rafters underneath the shingles was tricky but after a while I got the feel for it. After the nailers were on I 'eyeballed' the nailers for level and they looked terrible, with some being higher than others, but after the tin was screwed on the enevenness could not be seen at all. I have received many compliments about how good it looks. The steel I used was #1 'barn' steel. I cannot hear the rain hitting the tin. Years ago I put tin on an old farm building but I stripped the shingles off first. I should have left the shingles on because condensation on the bottom side of the tin dripped down through the sheeting. I live in Iowa and condensation is a problem here.

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Jared in VT

01-30-2004 05:51:54

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

Willey, These guys are telling you like it is. One technique is to strip the roof and pull all the nails you can, and set the rest. Parking a dump body truck directly under where you are stripping speeds up the clean up. Re-nail your existing roof deck in place and make any sheathing, soffit or rake edge repairs. Completely sheath the roof deck in Ice-shield or similer the-roof will-never-leak-through-this-sticky-stuff product that is available locally. I say again; the whole roof. You can walk on this stuff, but not when it's wet! Once it's applied, let it rain in the middle of your job, you don't care, it won't leak! Over the Ice-shield, install an inch or two of fiber glass sheet-type insulation. Nail strapping over this. Run chalk lines and nail the strapping to your rafters. Pole barn nails work great here. Based on your tin roofing manufacturers recommendtions for fastening the roof on specific centers; strap the roof again on those measurements. Nail two layers of cedar shingles on the drip edge. Fasten (screw) the tin to this strapping. Leave a couple inches space at the peak for ridge venting. Install covering boards on your rake edge. Congradulations! You have a leak proof, 60 year roof, R-12 or better, built with "cold roof" technology that will vent from the soffit to the ridge. But hey, what do I know!? The book, Renovating Old Houses, (Taunton Press), by George Nash, (a good Vermont boy) has a few variations on this theme. The best thing is what ever works for you Willey.
Have fun, Jared

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kendall

01-30-2004 20:02:41

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Re: Re: Metal roofing in reply to Jared in VT, 01-30-2004 05:51:54

this way will work well.

Most manufacturers recomend removing old shingles as they state that with time, and vibration from wind etc the granules can wear through the sheeting, however some provide 'overlay' type panels, for covering shingles, that are >to experienced< eyes, no different. put steel on for too many years, got out of it jan 1st, best ways: with nails, drive them untill the rubber bulges as much as it is thick, when on the flats, on ribs, just drive till it starts to bulge., BUT, strange as it sounds, the best way is to nail on the flats next to the rib. the ribs move and will work nails loose. if you use screws, drive them down untill the rubber is even with the cap. always working so the starter is next to the first rib. if you have to stack panels, put them on bottom,top, bottom, top, otherwise you get a gap at the lap. laps, straight side is 'top' the side with the lip goes under, doesn't seal too well otherwise. also, measure your hole spacing, and stack a pile up, then drill through all at once so as to make the screw lines stay straight looks a lot better than feild punched.

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Rick

01-31-2004 19:15:52

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Re: Re: Re: Metal roofing in reply to kendall, 01-30-2004 20:02:41

I am thinking of a roof like this also but why do you need to nail strips to the roof. Can't you just screw the metal through the foilbacked isnulation , tar paper, existing half inch plywood?

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Fern(Mi)

01-30-2004 05:17:25

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

Because there will be some radiated heat from your home's cielings I suggest a water proofing or vapor barrier against expected condensation under the metal roof leaking into the house.

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naz

01-30-2004 03:58:17

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

I had just completed a barn with a steel roof last fall.On a new construction the strapping(i used 1"x4" rough on 16" center)is nailed across the roof truss on 16" or 24" centers.I drilled the holes out on one sheet of roofing at the proper spacing for my srcews to hit the strapping and used this sheet for a template for the rest.This sounds like more work,but when your on the roof placing sheets of metal it lines up real sweet and easy to screw down(screws I found to be way more convenient than nails as you may have to remove them to make adjustments and they won't crush your roofing using a clutched drill)
As for putting it over an existing roof I would think it would depend on the condition of the wood under the shingles that you secure the strapping to,thats what is going to hold everything on.Also old curled up shingles would make it hard to keep everthing flat and level on top.I would be inclined to stripp off the old and start fresh and new,this way you are sure of what the roof is screwed down to and start flat and level.
Hope this helps,my 2 bits.

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FarmerTom

01-30-2004 03:29:03

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Re: Metal roofing in reply to Willy, 01-29-2004 20:52:10

we are a retailer of metal roofing. it is done both ways. strapping the roof lets the steel "breathe" underneath. new commercial buildings here in canada, where the owner is in for the long run, install a new shingle roof and the next day install a new steel roof, and they don't use the thinnest guage they can get. generally they don't EVER want the roof to leak or to be replaced. proper trims and flashings need to be used. i did my house by strapping over the shingles and then steel on top. the roof under the shingles has to be in good shape.

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Ross

01-30-2004 09:09:40

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Re: Re: Metal roofing in reply to FarmerTom, 01-30-2004 03:29:03

I don't doubt for one minute the claims about the long life span of the metal roofing. My only question is what about the rubber washer around the nail. Won't it rot away and cause leaks there? This is something I've been thinking about lately.
Ross

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FarmerTom

01-31-2004 04:01:39

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Re: Re: Re: Metal roofing in reply to Ross, 01-30-2004 09:09:40

today's nails and screws use neoprene washers that are UV balanced so sunlight will not deteriorate them. a bigger problem is when an overzealous contractor or building owner uses a long sheet without considering expansion and contraction from high noon temps to midnight temps and then over 20 years the nail hole or screw hole expands. in my roofing steel business, roofing nails are a thing of the past even though i still carry them. sold 5 lbs in the last 7 years. screws don't come out.

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