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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Pole Barn

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JM

01-27-2004 18:43:11




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I am thinking of putting up a building, but want to keep the costs down, so I am thinking about a homemade pole barn. Looking for suggestions about depth of sonnet(?) tube, then j-bolt into the concrete, one of the pre-fab connectors to 6x6 on corners and 4x4 structural members every 10 or 12 feet. What is the reccommended distance between trusses, 4 feet ok for northeast type snow/wind load? Anyone think its cheaper to get a steel, self-assembly building than putting up a wood frame? shooting for about 40x100x16'high to get equipment under.
thanks

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JM

01-28-2004 18:40:44




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
Thanks to everyone for all this info. Very helpful, I really appreciate the advice



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Nate in IA

01-28-2004 18:22:14




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
Just put up a 50 x80 x16 for neighbor last month. Was a wood building, perimeter footing 4' deep plus 2' above floor, 2 x 6 studs 2' o.c., rafters(4/12 pitch) every 4'. Total for wood and outside steel $37K. I could have sold one of my pre enginerered steel frames for about $31-32K. My opinion,anything larger than 30 x 40 go with steel. I trust bolts with threads a lot more than smooth 16 commons.

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David - OR

01-28-2004 17:15:56




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
Flurette Farm correctly points out that your proposed construction method provides NO lateral bracing. The first strong wind on the long side of your barn will blow the structure over like a house of cards.

Pole barns normally use embedded posts, instead of posts on footings, because such posts resist loads from the side as well as gravity loads downward. Putting the posts atop concrete footings eliminates this benefit and you have to do something else -- like metal rod X bracing or plywood shear walls to prevent the building from folding up.

Assuming a 4 in 12 pitch, the top of your roof would be at 24 feet. The projected area of the long side of your barn is thus 2400 square feet. The total design wind force of an 80 mph gust blowing on the side of the building is figured by the UBC as about 38000 pounds, and that's assuming you aren't in a coastal area and the barn isn't in the middle of a wide-open field.

This brings us to another problem. The total side load at the base of one of your proposed 4x4s is 3800 pounds. The Simpson AB44 or AB66 post base you might have been thinking of provides ZERO (that's right, 0) allowable side load resistive capability.

So if the building doesn't fold up on the first Nor'easter, it will likely blow sideways.

Many jurisdictions exempt agricultural buildings from building codes, and you may be allowed to try whatever you want, but it would be a good idea to develop a feel for the forces involved before sinking this amount of money and effort into the building. I recommend the book "Simplified Building Design for Wind and Earthquake Forces", by Ambrose and Vergun.

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dvtw

01-28-2004 07:01:23




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
JM, I just put up a small pole barn (24'X30') this summer. I put together a website with more or less a diary of the events with lots of pictures. Feel free to check it out.

Around my area there is an Agri-Steel Building Store that I bought the metal, treated post and trusses from. I drew up my plans and took it to them and they figured out the metal I would need...even down to the # of screws to put the metal on with. I figured out how much lumber I would need and ordered it from a local lumber yard. I saved about $2500 by doing it myself.

The trusses I bought are safe with up to a 12' span between them. I put a 10' span between mine.

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D.L.

01-28-2004 08:39:40




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 Re: Re: Pole Barn in reply to dvtw, 01-28-2004 07:01:23  
Thanks for this post... I enjoyed your website! Now I've really got spring fever! What's the deal on the trusses? Where did you get them? cost? load rating? clear span? etc? appreciate any info you can provide!

Best Regards,
D.L.



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dvtw

01-28-2004 09:57:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Pole Barn in reply to D.L., 01-28-2004 08:39:40  
Glad you enjoyed the site! I got the trusses from a place called Agri-Steel Buildings in Cullman, AL. (about an hour away) Don't think they have a website but I can get their phone number for them if you want it? Not sure where you are. I don't recall the exact specs on the trusses as far as load goes but I do remember the owner telling me. It was WAY up there! More than they would ever see. When I said span between was safe to 12' that means you need to have a post at least every 12' around the perimeter. Since the building was 30' on the sides I had one every 10'. Not sure if I spoke correctly, what did you mean by clear-span? Is that in the middle? The trusses are made in 3 pieces. You bolt them together in the middle and then bolt a long cross bar to keep them from torquing or twisting. They are extremely heavy! I paid $518.40 for 4 24' trusses ($130/each). They had a 5/12 pitch. The standard 3/12 they make are a little cheaper than that. Hope I answered most of your questions.

David

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Steve in NE

01-28-2004 05:39:19




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
I have committed myself to building a pole barn this spring.(Wife is not in love with this idea)Will more then likely go with Menards deal Or a local lumber yard. Looking to build a 40X50 , JM looks like you will have no! spare time for the next couple of months with a 40x100. Good luck!!
Here are some links to sites that I have come across. Caution! These sites will only give you way more options to ponder.

FYI..

Link
Link
Link
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Link

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VADAVE

01-28-2004 05:36:25




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
There is book available called "Practical Farm Buildings". It tells you about pole buildings, how to calculate the sizes including various loads(snow and wind). Then has tables so you don't have to do all the math only a little.
I built a building in '96 that is 138 X 40 X 15; cost about 15,000. The most expensive parts were the steel siding and after that the trusses. Poles were used telephone/power poles and the purlins and nailers were rough cut lumber from a local sawmill. Poles are still available if you go to your local power company with your chainsaw and truck. If the foreman is having a bad day he might charge you a small amount for them.

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D.L.

01-28-2004 05:08:57




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
My neighbor put up a 40' x 60' pole barn this fall. He bought a kit from Sutherland's... a regional "chain" lumber yard for about $12,000... took him and his 60+ year old uncle about 4 weeks to finish. Looks great and this winter we've had winds in excess of 70 mph and it's still standing! This system used 3 pressure treated 2x6's nailed together that went into the ground about 3 1/2'... ends were cut off so joints would be staggered... regular construction grade 2x6's were nailed into the "laminated posts" above ground... I also saw a commercial building built here a couple years ago and used the same method... seems to work well. My neighbor's building had posts spaced @ 10'... trusses atop each set of posts support purlins (2x4's) set on 2' centers. Roofing/siding went on those. Seeing that... I'm motivated for spring... can't wait!!!

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Rauville

01-28-2004 07:45:46




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 Re: Re: Pole Barn in reply to D.L., 01-28-2004 05:08:57  
I just got an estimate last week from a local contractor for a 40 x 54 x 14 pole barn. Using a Menard's building package, the erected price was $12,281.74 + 424.16 for delivered fill. The building is just the bare basics, with double sliding door, walk door, 4 skylights.



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D.L.

01-28-2004 08:20:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Pole Barn in reply to Rauville, 01-28-2004 07:45:46  
seems like mighty reasonable labor... wonder if they'd want to take a trip out west???



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MarkB

01-28-2004 03:36:37




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
Your best bet is to get a "pole barn package" from your local lumberyard. They should have a program that will spec out the pole barn so that it complies with the code for your area. I got mine from Carter Lumber (a national chain), and I'm happy with it. Also, talk to your building inspector to find out what's acceptable.

Normal practice for post frame footings is to set concrete "punch pads" about 16" in diameter below the frost line (typ. 42" down). Posts are typically 6x6 all around; remember that they have to support the entire weight of the building. On a building your size, posts will probably be every 8 feet.

Truss spacing is dependent on a lot of things: type of roofing (steel vs. shingle), snow load, whether or not purlins are used, etc. Another reason you need an engineered building (even if its "engineered" but the lumberyard's computer program).

You get what you pay for. The pole barn kits give you a lot of building for the money, but that's assuming you don't put much value on your time.

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Steve-Maine

01-28-2004 04:12:22




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 Re: Re: Pole Barn in reply to MarkB, 01-28-2004 03:36:37  
Quite a few years ago I built a real Pole Barn with used telephone poles. It has worked out real well. I was lucky to get the poles free as we had an ice storm and got the broken poles for hauling them off. I hired a local telephone construction company to dig holes and put up poles. Then I used corrugated aluminum roofing and also used it on the sides. The side facing my home I used rough pine vertical boards to be a little more attractive to look at. I left the south side open and never get much snow inside. The first sunny day after a storm the snow on roof just slides right off. Also what snow that blows into south side melts away. I got my plans from some state university but can't remember, I think it was in New York State.

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Flurette Farm

01-27-2004 19:31:42




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
JM, hope your shooting to spend 25-35 thousand after you've got your area leveled. Also the method your describing is much more expensive than a conventionally designed pole barn and won't take the wind load on 16' side walls without a lot of added bracing. These wind loads need to calculated by computer based on your location.
Just had a 40x60 with 15x60 side shed put up by BCI who did a very good job and better than average materials..... ...Good luck

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jerry

01-27-2004 18:52:58




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 Re: Pole Barn in reply to JM, 01-27-2004 18:43:11  
Call BCI builders, Muskogee, OK



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