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Back fire in a gas torch

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manoj patil

08-13-2000 22:54:56




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14/08/2000

this is to request you to let me know that what are the reasons for a back fire in a gas torch and how i can rectify it

regards
manoj patil product engineer (india) manik




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Wayne Swenson

08-14-2000 21:29:39




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 Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-13-2000 22:54:56  
Be sure to follow the "ABC" rule when using an acetylene torch. "A" comes before "O". Turn ON the Acetylene first when lighting up and turn OFF the Acetylene first when done heating or welding. That way the Oxygen flow continues to purge any Acetylene fuel out of the torch handle, blowing out the flame at the same time.



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Greg

08-14-2000 17:32:54




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 Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-13-2000 22:54:56  
The following will include some duplication of the responses below.

A BACKFIRE is a small explosion of the flame at the torch tip which may be the result of several avoidable conditions. The most frequent cause is preignition of the gases. Some causes of backfiring are:

1. The gas is flowing out too slowly and the pressures are too low for the size tip (orifice) used. The gases are therefore burning faster (flame propagation) than they can flow out of the tip. This trouble may be corrected by adjusting to a slightly higher pressure for both the oxygen and the acetylene.

2. The tip may become overheated from overuse, from operating in a hot corner, or from being too close to the weld. Cool the tip.

3. The inside of the tip may have carbon deposits or a hot metal particle may be lodged inside the orifice. These particles become overheated and act as ignitors. Correct this by cleaning the tip. Backfiring happens rarely but could occur when the inner cone of the flame is submerged in the puddle.

This comes from one of the college textbooks "Modern Welding" by Althouse, Turnquist, Bowditch, and Bowditch.

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manoj patil

08-15-2000 22:48:05




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 Re: Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to Greg, 08-14-2000 17:32:54  

all the above points is carried out but still the problem persists



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Fred OH

08-16-2000 11:23:26




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 Re: Re: Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-15-2000 22:48:05  
Manoj, Some torches such as combination torches (the kind that screw apart in the middle) have metal seats, o ring seals or asbestos type gaskets to prevent the gases from leaking into places where they aren't supposed to be and cause problems. The same with the torch tips. If you have tried all the recommended proceedures, then you might suspect this. Also check to make sure the hoses are clean inside by blowing out with an air hose. Remember NEVER use oil on any of the fittings or torch or gages. If this doesn't correct your problem, I would try another torch, then another regulator in that order. I will add that some torches are more apt to pop than others, due to poorer design. Sometimes adjustment of fuel and oxygen pressures will help. Sometimes a new tip will do the trick. I have seen regulators that kinda thump and the gage needle will jump, (probably needs rebuilt) Other times you take the torch off and replace it. As a man in your position knows, you don't want to be defeated by a problem such as this and you're working very hard to prevent it. Unless we know more about your setup, thats about all the help we can give. I have torches for propane, torches for acetylene and a template controlled flame cutting machine and occasionally I have to give up on one and have it rebuilt or replace it. L8R----Fred

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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-16-2000 05:32:38




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 Re: Re: Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-15-2000 22:48:05  
The problem could be in the technique being used. You should be heating the metal to a point where the filler metal flows immediately.

If you are depositing filler metal first, and then applying enough heat to "wet it out", that will also make the torch 'pop'.

A key step in brazing is to bring the base metal up to a tinning temperature without melting the base metal. If the base metal is allowed to melt, the filler will mix with it and cause a weak spot. When using brass filler, a flare up can also occur which is the zinc burning out of the alloy. You will notice a white powdery substance when this occurs. It's the same thing you will see when welding galvanized metal.

You also want to be sure that enough flux is used. Flux should flow slightly ahead of you as you progress along the joint.

Try this procedure Mr. Patil. Clean the metal surface by grinding. Heat the metal to a dull red. If you are using a fluxed rod, melt a little flux off of it and in the spot you wish to begin brazing. If you are using a powder flux, heat the end of the rod a bit and dip it in the flux. Then melt some of that flux off as previously mentioned.As soon as the flux flows, melt a small amount of the rod and see if it flows. If it does, that means the proper temperature and level of cleanliness has been achieved. Steve

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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-14-2000 10:57:09




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 Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-13-2000 22:54:56  
Hello Manoj,
I agree with Fred and Bill. More info would be beneficial.

In regard to your safety apparatus: If you have a later model Victor torch, it already has reverse flow check valves built-in. The new Vangaurd series has flash arrestors and check valves built in. If you don't have one of these torches, you should install check valves at the torch handle and flash arrestors at the regulators. Some people use flash arrestors at both ends of the hose.
Steve

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BFO

08-14-2000 04:42:22




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 Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-13-2000 22:54:56  
A backfire occurs when the flame goes out and re-ignites itself almost immediately, and this results in a loud bang or popping sound.
reasons:
1. insufficient flow of acetylene-gas is burned more slowly than it is supplied-increase pressure (NEVER above 15 psi).
2.tip too close to work- inner cone must not touch weld puddle, the hottest part of the flame is 1/8" away from the inner cone.
3. torch tip overheating- too large a tip, welding/cutting in a corner, moving to slowly.
4.small metal particles striking the tip or inside the tip- clean the tip, base metal may be too dirty (oxidized) or the flame is too oxidizing (adjust to a neutral flame)

The other, more (read VERY dangerous) dangerous condition is flashback. Flashback occurs when the flame goes out, relights itself and is pushed back into the torch. Black smoke and a squealing sound comes from the tip. The results are a ruptured hose, or a regulator or cylinder explosion. Anti-flashback valves minimize the danger.
reasons:
1. tip is clogged
2. tip cone submerged in weld puddle
3. failure to purge hoses before lighting

Hope this helps, and I'm sure Steve and Fred will add anything I've missed.

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Fred OH

08-14-2000 08:55:23




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 Re: Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to BFO, 08-14-2000 04:42:22  
Bill, you got it all together but stress that anti flashback valves are a "must have". Without knowing what his setup is, he might try setting the fuel pressure to 6# and the oxygen to 30# and try it and if it still does it, better consider a new torch. At the least, a new tip. Wouldn't hurt to know his whole setup including torch,hoses, regulators, tip size and type of fuel in another post. Might be he's trying to run propane with an acetylene tip. Post it again and we'll try to solve it for you. L8R----Fred

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F14

08-14-2000 03:49:31




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 Re: back fire in a gas torch in reply to manoj patil, 08-13-2000 22:54:56  
There are 'preventers' that go in the line between the hoses and the torch handles just for that reason. Any decent welding supply place should have them, takes about 2 minutes to install them.



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