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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

What to put under new vinyl siding

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Jackson

01-23-2004 17:47:48




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I just bought a place that has a decent work shop/garage on it. But I want to try and insulate the walls better. It has nasty looking aluminum siding on the outside. Than sheets of that black looking fiber board under the siding. Than 2x4 studs walls with 3" fiberglass insuation between the studs. And finished off on the inside is half inch dry wall. So what I'm thinking is rip off the old aluminum siding and put on vinyl siding, but is there something I can put on first before I put on the vinyl? 4x8 sheets of maybe half inch or inch, foam or cletxes??.Do you think this would really help much? is it worth putting up that thin of insulation? I will also be putting in all new(better) windows. Any sugestions? thanks ahead of time

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Jared in VT

01-25-2004 16:57:07




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Jackson, I'm uncertain if it is just the shop you wish to work on, or your home. If it's just the shop, don't torture yourself; DX the alum siding, staple the TYVEK on and re-side. If it's your home; Same deal, Kieth(OR) has it right; don't bother with vinyl. Apply a quality wood or mansonry siding. Vinyl is junk. Only apply a celotex type sheet insulation if you have lots of time and $$$. Your R-value is now about 12 which is not too bad. Unimog has good insight. Scott Green is an old hand, but a little too close to his product. Residential insulation technology is in it's infancy. After 220 years my home only now has any insulation. The guys that really have the answers are not the appliers, but the renovaters/restorers. To know what works, you have to rip out the old stuff and the rot and the mess, do your reasearch and rebuild it right. You're on the right track. Have fun! Jared

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jls

01-25-2004 09:09:51




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Scott has it very right , tear old off, I've seen alum siding tied into alum windows that turned the whole side of the house into a radiator, furring out makes windows look cobbled and makes wonderful leaks I love redoing studs under windows with old, bad siding jobs. blue foam and house wrap WILL save money in long run if you heat it at all.resisting hail is a matter of buying good heavy vynl not the least price

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John

01-25-2004 07:20:23




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Some good ideas here but you should consider....
Changing your aluminum siding to vinyl will do very little toward insulating your shop and will be only curb appeal. But if that is your goal then do it. You can get by with black board or foam sheets under the vinyl but if you do you do not need locks on your doors. You should use OSB or plywood under vinyl. Think about it. A razor knife will cut vinyl siding; foam or black board; insulation; and drywall. Why would you need to lock doors.
What ever you use for siding a good house wrap is well worth the money spent on it.

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Dale

01-24-2004 17:47:01




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
If you re-side with vinyl be certain to place a barrier behind it. Vinyl is very leaky to wind driven rain and if you install it over OSB, plywood or homosote without first covering with Tyvec, rosin paper (or both) you are asking for expensive trouble later. The cost of housewrap or rosin paper is trivial compared to the cost of fixing the consequences of leaky siding. Furthemore, be vary careful about properly flashing window and door openings. You shouldn't place much faith in the weather tightness of J channel.

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Bus Driver

01-24-2004 15:46:57




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
There are some really good suggestions posted already about how to do the job. But I seriously doubt that changing the sheathing and siding are going to add much insulating value. I do know that it will require considerable labor and money for materials. If it was mine, I would spend the money on tools and the time on using them in the shop.



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Kurt (mi)

01-24-2004 09:30:18




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
If it were me I would put up 3/8 or 1/2" OSB. Then the vinyl siding, OSB is Oriented strand board, cheaper then plywood by a little.



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Al m

01-24-2004 05:38:02




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Years ago I replaced the dented,faded alu siding on my moters house with vinyl.after stripping the alu &insul brick(ashfalt)under that,reparied any rot, rapped with tyvec then added styrofoam sm,1",r5,before siding.All window and door openings need to be built out and flashed to meet the new siding.The results were a fresh look to a 65yr old house ,elevated comfort level and reduced heating costs.At the time scape alu brought .80 a pound that payed about 1/3 of the project.a good investment with payback in reduced heating costs and increased curb appeal.
lol
Al

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Scott Green

01-24-2004 04:06:24




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Hi Jackson , This has been my business for going on 26 years now. There are many people with many ideas. Now , I will tell you just how to do that siding job.First off , you have to listen to what slow poke said. If the siding is going to come off , here is advice from a true professional at this trade. (1.) Tear off the aluminum , and cash it in at metal recycling junkyard. This will pay for part of the project. (2.) Some kind of sheeting over studs is nice for nailing vinyl siding , but not neccessary , as long as the studs are on 16" centers. If the studs are on 24" centers , you should put sheeting on. (3.) If in windy area , install "TYVEK" house wrap. TYVEK is the best house wrap on the market. (4.) You will want 3/4" "DOW" insulation board(Blue Board). Buy 2 x 8 tongue & groove sheets , not 4 x 8 sheets. Much easyer to work with. Do Not Use Any Insulation Board With Aluminum Foil On It. The foil reflects heat , and bakes the vinyl siding from both sides , causing the vinyl to become very brittle. A factory rep. for vinyl siding manufacturer told us this years ago. Yet , I still see foil faced insulation board being used. (5.) You can buy vinyl siding with UV protection. "Heartland" is one name brand. There are others. Any questions , feel free to e-mail.

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Ted Will

08-09-2006 09:38:10




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 Re: Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Scott Green, 01-24-2004 04:06:24  
I recently added an addition to my home. The contract included Tyvek house wrap. The contractor placed felt paper on prior to the vinyl siding and forgot the Tyvek. The contractor said I could put it on the inside of the house prior to the drywall and it would do the same thing. Is this a good idea? What to do now?



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Slowpoke

01-23-2004 23:46:55




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
If you can't stand the siding, well, tear it off and start over. Otherwise you might consider, if you have the space, adding furring to the inside walls, fill in insulation, and sheet rock it. Might be a lot less than all new sheathing and siding.
And don't forget to upgrade the electric while you've got it open..



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Nick

01-24-2004 18:52:14




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 Re: Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Slowpoke, 01-23-2004 23:46:55  
If you are going to put on vinyl siding I recommend installing Millennium brand siding by Wolverine. Unlike most vinyl siding, you can flush nail it. The only thing with the nail slots is the J-Channel and etc.



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buck

01-23-2004 23:14:06




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  

First off you will need to put something like OSB or plywood over the black board because the black board will not give enough nailing surface for the vinyl.The vinyl siding has little to no insulation value. Tyvek or foam barrier will cut down on air infiltration but will give little insulation value. If the existing siding is sound other than looks I suggest a coat of paint



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Vern-MI

01-24-2004 05:48:28




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 Re: Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to buck, 01-23-2004 23:14:06  
I put 1/2 inch OSB over the Celotex (black fiber board) and found that I had to use a pneumatic nailer to fasten the OSB or else the pounding would loosen all of the drywall nails on the inside. I learned the hard way.



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Keith(OR)

01-23-2004 20:53:43




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Well for my two cents. In 1995 we had a big hail storm come through here, trashed all the houses with vinyl siding that was 8 years or older. They found out after the fact , ultraviolet rays from the sun hardened the vinyl. A lot of insurances were very unhappy with all the claims. My folks had large hole all over their house from the hail stones. The vinyl was less the 10 years old.
Just my input.

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old

01-23-2004 19:50:51




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
If it was me and I had the money I'd put a house wrap on it, its like a 1/4 inch of foam that goes under the siding. Oh by the way I did that for a year as a liveing, it helps stop drafts and adds a little to the R factor. As I was alway told vinyl is final



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greenbeanman

01-26-2004 20:35:27




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 Re: Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to old, 01-23-2004 19:50:51  
As to vinyl being final, a magazine around here carried an indepth article stating that vinyl home owners can expect to replace their vinyl siding about every 20 years.

Ever see a vinyl covered home that was next to a home that burned? Plastic melts.

While I like vinyl better than aluminum, I like steel better than either. So far my home or the old family home hasn't rusted yet. Both covered with steel siding.

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old

01-26-2004 21:07:44




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 Re: Re: Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to greenbeanman, 01-26-2004 20:35:27  
Ya I've seen it next to a fire a couple years ago when my parents house burned down. My self I like cement the best, no rust, no melting or denting and storms have to work hard to hurt them. If all goes well I'll be putting up cement walls on the out side of my home in a year or two and then back filling with dirt. Should lower heating cost and make the house safer also



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Unimog

01-23-2004 19:29:31




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Generally speaking, insulation put on the outside
of a building does little to keep it much warmer
inside. Usually a 3/8" foam is installed to level
the surface so the vinyl siding comes out even
and flat. You should put up Tyvek type house wrap
which really cuts down on drafts prior to the
foam backerboard and vinyl. Heat has to be saved
before it reaches the outer wall.



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Harrison

01-23-2004 19:10:06




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 Re: What to put under new vinyl siding in reply to Jackson, 01-23-2004 17:47:48  
Tear off is alot of work.One shop I fixed up had tin siding and I ran boards upright in between the ridges of the tin then screwed the vinyl siding to the tin and boards.It looked really good, maybe added some R value, and it made it a one day job instead of four.Just a thought.



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