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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo)

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Robert

01-21-2004 05:31:23

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I have a '92 Ford Tempo with the 2.3 L engine in it that, for some reason will not start.
I've checked fuel pump operation (seems to be good flow), checked spark at plugs (looks good), but for some reason, it acts like it's not getting gas. The engine tries to start (or that's what it sounds like), but will not run.
I even pulled a spark plug, and the plug was wet with gas.
Any suggestions, or similar experiences (with remedies) would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance!

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Vern-MI

01-25-2004 04:59:09

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

One more thing to check, is there condensation inside the distributor cap? That will cause the erratic firing that you have described. Also dirty and damp igniton wiring will also cause problems.

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Vern-MI

01-23-2004 08:18:15

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

Is this engine fuel injected or carburated? You said you checked the fuel flow and it seemed adequate, how did you check the flow? If it is fuel injected you should check the pressure to see if it is approximately 42 psi which is required to start. Did you take out a spark plug to see if it was saturated with gas or dry with no evidence of fuel? If they are wet then you have enough fuel and the problem is probably the spark system. How many miles has it been since a spark plug and ignition wire change? Old cold engines typically are harder to start because the cranking speed is lower and the compression is not as high as it was when new. They need a very good spark to ignite the gas! If the TFI is good and you are getting a spark then use a timing light to see if the spark is in time when someone tries to start the engine. Does this engine have a distributor or is it distributor-less. If it has a distributor then does it have a hall effect sensor inside which would tell the module when to fire? Or is the TFI module mounted on the radiator couling and the crank position sensor indicating when firing should occur?

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Robert

01-23-2004 09:09:38

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Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo in reply to Vern-MI, 01-23-2004 08:18:15

The plugs are saturated with gas, I pulled # 3, (because it is the easiest to get to), and saw what looked to me like a very good spark between the end of a screwdriver, and the valve cover.
As to whether it's in time or not, I haven't made that check yet. It's beginning to look more and more as if the engine did jump time.
It has a distributor, and multi-port (not throttle body) fuel injection. My crude fuel test was to pull the line from the input side of the filter, and turn the ignition on---a stream of fuel 4-5' came out of the line, so that LOOKED to me like the pump was okay....

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Vern-MI

01-23-2004 11:07:18

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford T in reply to Robert, 01-23-2004 09:09:38

It appears that fuel is not a problem and since you had the TFI checked and it was OK the next thing to check would be spark timing. Take the distributor cap off and look to see if it has a hall effect pickup and a shutter wheel. This device is used to control the ignition timing with respect to engine crank position via the distributor shaft. These hall effect sensors do on occasion go bad. The other thing that has happened on these set ups is that the TFI connector, three spade lugs, to the distributor hall effect sensor connector tends to age and decompose, corrode and turn into a gummy mess and lose connection. At any rate the engine is now gas flooded and will be hard to start when the problem is found. You will have to open the throttle plate to get extra air in order to attain stoich or fuel / air balance in order for it to start. Close the throttle immediately when it catches and don't leave the throttle open. It would be nice to be able to see if the spark timing is right by using a timing light on plug number one if you have one. Most of Ford electronics problems are connector problems.

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Bernie in MA

01-22-2004 16:55:55

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

Has this car gotten hit? We had one, slid on ice and hit another car. After it was fixed couldn't get it started. There was a fuel automatic shutoff in the trunk that had to be reset.

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Robert

01-23-2004 06:05:43

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Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo in reply to Bernie in MA, 01-22-2004 16:55:55

No, the car hasn't been hit. I knew about the emergency shut off, because I've had to replace the fuel pump.
This problem started when my son got ready to leave one morning. He got in it, and it just wouldn't start.
The ignition module tests good, so, now it's looking more and more as if it might of jumped time, although an engine with a chain instead of a belt usually doesn't have this happen (well, none of my Chevy engines ever jumped time, anyway), or something major has broken.
Has anyone ever replaced a timing chain with the engine still in the car on one of these? The cheap repair manual I have says you have to pull the engine.
Thanks for looking at my "tale of woe", and for all the helpful suggestions so far!

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Robert

01-22-2004 05:44:31

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

An update---sort of. I went through what little information I could find in the repair manual I have, and found out (doing their test) that the throttle position sensor wasn't working properly. Headed to the local Autozone, and $30 later, put the new one on, only to discover that wasn't the problem.
I didn't have the proper tool to remove the ignition module for testing, so that's the next step.
Does anyone know of a home version of a diagnstic tester (that you can plug in) that's relatively cheap? At this rate, I could end up in the poor house buying little plastic pieces.
I did call the parts house, and they show that 2.3 L engine has a timing chain, not a belt, so I kind of doubt that it jumped time---but anything's possible.
Thanks in advance for support and information shared thus far---this little car is trying to get the best of me.....

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tech4

01-22-2004 06:55:14

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Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo in reply to Robert, 01-22-2004 05:44:31

The TPS will not cause a not start but will make one cut out after starting. That ignition module goes out quite often How do I know, I had one and I carried a spare in the trunk with the tool. It will produce a spark in free air but not under compression. You can also use a 7/32 Craftsman deep socket that works ok to. The tool in various brands at all the auto parts stores sell for 5 to 10 dollars. You can pull the module off and get it checked in the store before buying. Also back near the firewall there is a multi pin plug that contains a lot of the control signals and it does come loose. Make sure it is snapped closed.

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Roger

01-21-2004 21:22:46

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

I don't know about a '92, but my '86 Topaz with a 2.3 had pushrods and OHV's. The 2.3 Mustang engine might have had a timing belt, I'm not sure. I had an engine control computer that went south on me. It seem that the plugs that come out of the little aluminum box (the one on the firewall) dangle around enough to cause the wires to break, right where they exit the box. It was the darndest thing to troubleshoot. Sometimes it would start and run fine, then leave you stranded, with abosulutely no warning. It just would not start! I figured it wasn't getting a spark, so I replaced the coil. Of course, it ran like a top immediately after that, so I was convinced it was fixed. A few nights later, it stranded me at a restaurant, just close enough to my house that it wasn't worth getting a cab for, but far enough to be a damn nuisance. A guy at work told me to replace the engine control computer, or whatever the proper name is for it, and it ran fine after that.

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Old Ford Mechanic

01-21-2004 19:54:32

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

Robert,what you are describing sounds like a classic case of the old timing belt giving up.It may have already slipped over a few notches on one of the pulley's.This will retard the engine timing causing the engine to almost start.Loosen the distributor and turn it.If the engine starts turn it off quickly and replace the timing belt.Also i beleive your ignition module and other parts are okay.

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Greywolf

01-21-2004 12:51:07

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

While you have the cap off, give the rotor a good inspection. If you see a black dot anywhere on the underside, it has burned through and is shorting out.

I spent a long time tracing down a no start problem a while back. Spark was to the plugs, but not enough. Rotor was shorting out.

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tech4

01-21-2004 08:20:28

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

the ignition module in that model goes out quite often. The spark will look good but electronically it is out of time.

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Robert

01-21-2004 09:49:22

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Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo in reply to tech4, 01-21-2004 08:20:28

That's what it acts like---it tries to start, but won't quite do it.
Now---next dumb question----where is it located on the engine?

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tech4

01-21-2004 11:39:42

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford T in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 09:49:22

It is in the distributor pull the cap off and you will need either a ford ignition wrench or a 7/32 thin socket to remove. They are available at most parts stores

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tech4

01-21-2004 11:46:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Fo in reply to tech4, 01-21-2004 11:39:42

Look on the side of distributor where the plug plugs in. Be sure and get the right module for your car as they are different. It is called a TFI module

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Bob

01-21-2004 06:11:35

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Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo) in reply to Robert, 01-21-2004 05:31:23

Timing belt (if your engine has one), or ignition module.

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frdmnn

01-21-2004 17:05:33

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Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford Tempo in reply to Bob, 01-21-2004 06:11:35

i'd hang a timing light on it while someone else cranks it over.if that checks out,take the ignition module out and take it to auto zone or pep boys, they can test them to see if they are defective. good luck

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napaman

01-21-2004 17:38:42

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.--- I Need A Little Help! (Ford T in reply to frdmnn, 01-21-2004 17:05:33

better go to napa and get a timing belt....

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