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Hookin up my welder

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chief613

08-13-2000 06:05:51




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well i got to play with my welder a bit yeasterday, just run a wire into the panel at the neigbors garage to see if it worked, it did, hopefully it will work better with practice *grin*. How long a wire can i run from my panel here. Gonna pull the electric stove hook up and run a wire for the welder. What gauge wire should i run, and how big a breaker. I used a 30amp to play, but i did run it much, 30 worked, but am i gonna need a bigger one when i really get to using it? Has anyone made up an outside outlet? I aint really got a barn to work out of. Thanks for any help

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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-14-2000 11:06:56




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 Re: hookin up my welder in reply to chief613, 08-13-2000 06:05:51  
I called that electric house over the noon hour and they told me the same thing. #10. I called the other one and they said #6 has become standard. I looked in the old shop we built about 20 years ago. We hired that wiring job out and they used #10 to my welders.

I'm a welder by trade and not an electrician. The one thing I really like about this forum and the access to my customers ( Some of which are electricians and not welders)is the fact that you can get answers if you're not afraid to ask.

I asked one of the electricians at one of my manufacturing plants about their procedure for wiring equipment like welding machines and he said #6.

I'm going to take back the #10 and buy #6 from the people who told me that had become the standard size.
Steve

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Terry G

08-14-2000 13:21:32




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 Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-14-2000 11:06:56  
Steve, As others have said, I think the point here is not to use a 50 amp breaker on #10 wire. It is quite possible that some small welders don't need more than a #10 wire but it should be on a 30 amp breaker. That way the breaker will be the weak link and not the wire. Ain't this a great place to learn? Terry G



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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-14-2000 13:45:09




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 Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Terry G, 08-14-2000 13:21:32  
Hi Terry,
It sure is.

You know, I am going to use #10 wire with a 30 amp breaker for my 110v welder. Miller has always told us that it only requires a 20 amp circuit but everytime I've demoed one on a 20 amp circuit it kicked out. The only time I believe you could get by on 20 amp breakers would be running the machine on a very low amp setting. It guess it might be OK if it was very close to the breaker box too.

I've never tripped the breakers with my big machines on the 50 amp circuits. Since I'm setting up this new building, I want to go heavier in regard to wiring after accidentally stumbling across all the information on this subject as of late. I think this building will last long enough to see me out of this world. I want it to be as well equipped as it can be.
Steve

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big fred

08-14-2000 15:04:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-14-2000 13:45:09  
There is a little green book (often referred to as "the green book") called "Wiring Simplified" available for less than 10 bucks at most home centers and well stocked hardware stores. Most everything in that book is reviewed for compliance with the National Electrical Code and is written for non-electricians. It's a great book, with charts for selecting the right size wire and an entire chapter on grounding. The previous post about sizing your breaker based on wire size is right on, too much current in a wire can cause a fire, too much current in a breaker just trips the breaker.

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Greg

08-14-2000 18:05:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to big fred, 08-14-2000 15:04:02  
WIRING SIMPLIFIED is well worth it, if nothing else for the line drop and ampacity tables. It's one of thoses cases "if you don't use it you lose it". I'm still wiring portions of my shop and it's a good reference.

If you can't find it in a store, phone number is (715) 247-5076. Mail order is: Park Publishing Inc., P.O. Box 387, Somerset, WI 54025.



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Scott Green

08-13-2000 06:56:34




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 Re: hookin up my welder in reply to chief613, 08-13-2000 06:05:51  
You will need a 50 amp breaker for the welder you have. Go to your local electric store. They will set you up with enough service wire and an exterior receptical. Or , you can just build a little roof over the receptical you have. That is if you have one already. You might want to double check what I'm about to say. If I remember right , it takes the same receptical as an electric dryer. You might want to attach a small box to the side of your house , approx: 2 foot deep x 4 foot wide x 4 foot high. Put a shed type roof on it , along with some kind of door. Put your welder , receptical , helmet , rod , tools , etc. in the box. While your at it , you might want to even put a 110 receptical in the box , so that you can run a grinder , etc. , should you need to.Insulate the box and put a light on the ceiling. You will be able to see , should you need to do something at night time. You can even plug in a small electric heater with a thermostat on it. That will keep the rod dryer. If you do a nice job on this project , it will look good and work very well. Everything I had just told you is what I had done myself. This will get you by untill you put up a building to use as a shop , which is also what I had done.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-13-2000 06:38:16




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 Re: hookin up my welder in reply to chief613, 08-13-2000 06:05:51  
Use 10/3 wire and absolutely nothing less than a 50 amp breaker on a dedicated circuit.

I would also suggest you investigate the new electronically activated welding helmets. I wish they would have been around when I was learning to weld. If you have one, there is no longer a good excuse for laying a bead along side the crack. The aggrevation factor goes way down in all respects.
Steve



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Terry G

08-13-2000 07:18:40




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 Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-13-2000 06:38:16  
Steve, Are you sure a 10/3 wire will carry 50 amps? I always used a 30 amp breaker on 10 guage wire and a 50 amp on 6 guage.

Terry



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Dave R

08-13-2000 19:08:49




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 Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Terry G, 08-13-2000 07:18:40  
I agree with everyone, safety first. Has anyone read NEC Chapter 6 Article 630, I just did, it's the part on "special equipment - arc welders". I think Steve's right, considering what I've seen used for ARC WELDERS and if Chief doesn't go too long with it. I believe this 225/AC Lincoln has a 50 amp primary rating and a 20% duty cycle at full amperage. Being an arc welder, wiring is uprated because of duty cycle according to Article 630. But remember, the NEC is only a minimum! I still wouldn't do it without advice from an electrcian and would consider going up one size anyway. Before welding, read and then follow the duty cycle chart.
I would label the circuit breaker and recepticle FOR WELDER ONLY. Try not to breath too much smoke. Keep your shirt buttoned. Stay away from flammables. I heard about a guy was killed when stinger touched his neck. I also heard DC is a lot safer for wet areas, can anyone explain why? Be Safe

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Scott Green

08-13-2000 07:14:47




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 Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-13-2000 06:38:16  
Steve , you shouldn't be giving advise on electrical , if you don't know your self. Chief 13 can burn his house down useing # 10 wire with a 50 amp breaker. Useing a 50 amp breaker , he would want a #6 wire. I don't mean to be so blunt , but this is a safty factor. Many people may be reading this.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-13-2000 13:07:05




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 Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Scott Green, 08-13-2000 07:14:47  
Hi Scott,
I just bought 10/3 to hook up three welders for use in my new shop on the advise of our local electrical supply store. If they told me wrong I'm not going to be too happy about it. I WILL be calling them first thing tommorrow morning in regard to this matter. Steve



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Dave R

08-14-2000 06:45:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-13-2000 13:07:05  
Steve and all?
The last thing I want to do is give bad electrical advice, especially because of the possibly life threatening consequences.
So, in the interest of clarifying this by getting an electricians advice on this important matter, I posted a question that I believe accurately represents this situation. Please use great caution in your interpetation of resonses.
Below is the link. I have not looked for a response yet, let me know if the link doesn't work.
Be Safe

Link
Click Q & A Forum

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Scott Green

08-13-2000 20:39:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-13-2000 13:07:05  
Hi again Steve , The issue is not the welder. It is the combination of a 50 amp breaker and the #10 wire. The #10 wire will melt off the insulation long before the 50 amp breaker will trip. For #10 wire , you would want a 30 amp breaker , which would trip before melting the insulation. Because chief 613's welder calls for a 50 amp breaker , that means that the wire should mach the breaker. The duty cycle of the welder has to do with the wiring inside the welder it self , not the wiring between the panel box and the receptical for the welder.Again , sorry about sounding so blunt in my last reply.

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BFO

08-13-2000 14:04:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-13-2000 13:07:05  
Steve, I have to agree with the others.



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Fred OH

08-14-2000 09:44:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to BFO, 08-13-2000 14:04:16  
Hi from Fred,
I always used the same size wire as the plug in wire on the welder for short runs. For an extension cord, I used a 8/3 up to 50 ft. Recently I run a 125' lead to the back of the shop for a welder and air compressor back there. It was 6/3 Romex. I have used most of these setups for years with no problems with them. If the voltage is consistantly on the low side, I will go with a one size bigger wire thinking I will have less voltage drop with it. Down the road at the Mall (junkyard), I seen them use what I think you call tri-plex for an extension cord. It's what runs from pole to pole that they use to get the electricity to you. I think their motto is "The devil hates a coward"! All mine are fused with 50 to 60 amp fuses. L8R----Fred

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BFO

08-14-2000 14:27:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hookin up my welder in reply to Fred OH, 08-14-2000 09:44:03  
Hey Fred, the only reason I posted was that I just went through this while hooking up a press a couple weeks ago, and changing plugs on the welders. And my 'lectrician just happened to be walking around outside ;-)



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