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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Keeping snowmobilers out

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Bill

01-19-2004 07:12:53




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I have 24 acres I'm planting trees on. It is down the road so I can't watch it all of the time. A snowmobiler is running through there running over my trees. I guess I will fence it in next spring when the ground thaws, using 3 strand barbed wire.Does anyone know what my liability will be if this idiot gets "hung up" in the fence? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Bill




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Troy

01-28-2004 21:50:17




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
had the same problem with 4wheelers in the sumer
snowmobilers in the winter talked to the law they said 3 strand barbed wire whith signs every 50 feet went with 4 strand and signs every 25 feet
didnt work mud truck with blown 426 hemi through front and back yard did they stay out of my feilds now



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kevin

01-20-2004 13:36:44




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
i've had many older people put snowmobilers in perspective with this comment...." how is it they can spend all that money on something and not stay on their OWN land? " if they spent that money on their own land instead of toys maybe they'd respect land ownership



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Ben in KY

01-20-2004 12:06:14




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
I have found that properly posting "No trespassing surviving violators will be prosecuted "signs with nicely shot-up targets right below them seem to work fairly well.



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Nolan

01-20-2004 03:58:19




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Well if no ones going to mention it, I will. It's illegal to set man-traps. A single strand of wire designed to decapatate a snowmobile rider, or one designed to rip the front skies off, is illegal. Placing full fencing on the other hand, is legal (excepting specific local ordinances regarding fence height, type, etc). The lovely grey area is in between.



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JF

01-19-2004 20:12:47




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Put up some tree nursey signs up,might help.



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Clem

01-19-2004 19:50:12




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Best thing you can do is update your insurance. And that probably is the only safe thing you can do.



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todd

01-19-2004 18:43:26




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
put up a sign BOMBING RANGE BEWARE OF BIG HOLES



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Can't be done!

01-19-2004 18:23:33




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
No matter what you try, you can't keep 'em out. They'll go where they want, and run you over in the process. No signs, barriers, fences, hedges, are sufficient to stop those of that mentality. Something about having an engine bigger than the one in my car between your knees, and only a thumb punch away takes the last shred of decency and respect for others right out of their minds. At 100mph, they can do a lotta trespassing in just a few seconds. We've literally been run down trying to stop 'em from coming on the place. Do anything that'l hurt them, or their machines, and you'll end up in court charged with setting booby traps. Even if it's a very visable gate, clearly marked, flagged, ribboned, etc. A cable, wire, or chain is definitely an invitation for disaster - >YOURS> After the criminal court, there's always the survivors ready to take you to civil court. You don't even have to put up barriers - just have a stump, ditch, whatever, if they're hurt they can sue. Law enforcement will be glad to tell you your rights concerning trespassers, but won't lift a finger to help you enforce those rights. Been there - gone that route. RayP(MI)

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jake in il

01-19-2004 22:35:45




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 Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Can't be done!, 01-19-2004 18:23:33  
also being a snowmobiler, did you talk to the local snomo club?

i suggust the orange fencing as well

barbed wire aint cool



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Stick

01-20-2004 21:09:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to jake in il, 01-19-2004 22:35:45  
I'm a snowmobiler too. There are such routes as highway road allowances, cut lines, public lands, etc. There is absolutely no reason for ANYONE to tresspass on another person's property. PERIOD! That is what will get snowmobiling outlawed some day! Any snowmobiler running in farm country had best expect (legal) barbed wire. In many locales, it is law that landowners MUST fence their land. There is no law that gives you the right to tresspass.

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Russ

01-19-2004 17:57:57




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Across our roads we have cable run thru 1" pvc pipe, with reflector tape on the pipe. In the middle hangs a no trespassing sign.



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Hermit

01-19-2004 16:57:51




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Six foot poles with ribbon tape on top. Stake these poles next to your new trees. Hopefully, the snowmobilers who ignore private property rights will see those poles and miss your trees.



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Mac

01-19-2004 17:40:03




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 Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Hermit, 01-19-2004 16:57:51  
I dunno Hermit, if they dont respect your land, why would they respect the marked trees???



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Hermit

01-19-2004 22:05:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Mac, 01-19-2004 17:40:03  
I was thinking that if the poles were close enough to the planted trees, the snowmobilers would drive around the poles thus avoiding the trees. However, for those idiots that would enjoy running over the poles, I would do what I did after someone ran over my mailbox on the road. I put a couple of 2x4's together to make a 4x4 with the center area hollowed out and I installed a steel bar in the middle. Next time someone thinks it's fun to knock over mailboxes, it'll be easier to find out who they are.

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Dieselrider

01-19-2004 16:27:32




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Bill, First let me say that I feel your pain as a land owner. Now, like some of the others said, you should find a lawyer to talk to about this and find out what you can and can't do. If you put up the fence and someone gets hurt you are probably liable. I know that it isn't right but look what happened to Mcy D's when some bone head spilled hot coffee on herself all because they didn't have the word HOT on the container. Having said that the least you should do is post it very clearly along with the fence and some very visable road blocks or brush piles. I would definately check with a lawyer.

One other thing you might do is put up a sign saying you're using it for a shooting range and let a couple targets hanging around with well placed small group shots in them. The further you hang the targets from the shooting bench the better. After he gets a look at them maybe he'll feel the need to move on.

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Fern(Mi)

01-19-2004 14:08:59




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Before stringing barb wire check local orinances. I'm in an area where old wire may be replaced on an exsisting fence. And, barb wire shall not be used upon new fence. Hi-tension fencing is becoming very popular here abouts.
May also help to check with your local police (seriff, town or township, and state) as well as conservation officers on local laws In different areas of the different law enforcment agencies their all taking different priority attitudes.
Luck.
Opps, Maybe a sign could help appeal to these trespasser's education & harmful indulgences.

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Rob

01-19-2004 12:23:20




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Well, heres what you do, you put up the 3 strand barbed wire AND NO TRESSPASSING signs along anywhere that is visible from the road. put them up evey 50 feet or so. One on each side of your access road. this should cover the legal end of your problem, because if someone is stupid enough to trespass on land that is CLEARLY posted with no tresspassing signs they are at fault for their injuries, not the land owner. I hope thats how its written in the law books. the other solution is to sit inside of your 24 acres of land, in your truck, wait for the violator, when he comes by stop him and have a few words with him about your problems with him. its safe ,legal and it doesnt cause anyone any bodily injury.

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KURT (mi)

01-19-2004 16:32:24




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 Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Rob, 01-19-2004 12:23:20  
I agree with one addition, take a shotgun to the front of the snowmobile and disable it.



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WOW

01-19-2004 20:15:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to KURT (mi), 01-19-2004 16:32:24  
Now that thinking is from bad breeding habits.



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Rob

01-19-2004 18:58:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to KURT (mi), 01-19-2004 16:32:24  
Well I was thinking more to the effect of just keep them out, not go to court over a ruined snowmobile. I was thinking within the law and with minimal damage to person or proberty. I dont like to start local feuds between people, but I do like to use firearms. My only problem is that the destruction of another persons things can land one in the county jail. Thus I left out the gun idea due to the fact that also IF you miss and accidentally kill someone, that you could cause more trouble than you could ever imagine. Its as simple as this People and guns aimed at their vehicles dont mix. MY help is only within the letter of the law.

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T_Bone

01-19-2004 10:09:44




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Hi Bill,

Please consider when you fence the road that the person may hit the barb wire after you install it thinking it's still a open road. Yes I do realize that it's private property and he's tresspassing but you don't want to hurt him do you?

This happen to my son when he was 14yrs old but the guy only put up one strand of barb wire accross the road. When he hit the wire it caught him under the neck but didn't cut him too bad as he was wearing a helment. He was very lucky. He still has the scars on his chin and neck at 30yrs old as he kiloids bad (type of scar that swells out).

My postion was he was on pivate land and should have known better and got his motorcycle taken away for a month for riding on pivate land plus lick his wounds.

In todays world I guess if I'd been a "AH", the land owner could have been liable for only putting up one strand of barb wire and no signs on an existing roadway even tho it was a private road. All though I felt one strand was more of a "trap" than a stop sign, I felt my son was more at fault. Had he been seriously hurt, would I still feel the same way at that time? Three strands proabaly yes. One strand, it's a toss up, but I sure would have wanted to talk with the land owner.

T_Bone

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George in Biloxi

01-19-2004 15:54:14




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 Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to T_Bone, 01-19-2004 10:09:44  
That is a hard payment just for a kid being on someone's land. When I was little, my cousin was decapitated by barb wire on a snowmobile. It should be marked well. Drug growers like to make traps, we should'nt.



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T_Bone

01-19-2004 18:30:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to George in Biloxi, 01-19-2004 15:54:14  
Hi George,

This is hard to say without sounding like a total AH.

I disagree. The first rule of riding trails is to know the area your riding, prescope it out.

My son failed to do so as he was taught. He could have just as well came around a cornner with a tree limb at neck height with the same results. We live in the Arizona desert and everything has sharp spines on it, grass, tree branches and alots of cactus.

A landowner has the right to protect there property from damage. Although my son was just riding accross his property to access State land on a known roadway, no damage other than tire tracks, that roadway was still private land and my son didn't have permission to enter the private property.

One thing my son did learn from that day, is to never cross private land without premission and to scope out where he rides. He still follows those rules today. Hard leasson but he only had to learn it once.

Now the kicker is the land owner, a young kid and his father, was arrested about 3yrs latter for selling drugs, buying the section of land, illegal subdividing the land, drilling water wells without permits, distributing Utilitys without a permit ( selling water and reselling electricity utilitys). The son took the drug charges, the Dad took the rest, and the State got the land. Both are still in jail after 10yrs.
I think there was also some threatening of County officals involved.

Funny that you would mention druggers :)

T_Bone

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George

01-20-2004 15:24:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to T_Bone, 01-19-2004 18:30:31  
You are right. My point was just "If we only did what we were taught"..... Thankfully he had a lesson to learn and it was not the end. Sometimes you do not get to learn from it, others do. All that said, it sounds like you have the right attitude.



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Mike M

01-19-2004 09:50:12




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Plant some multi-flower rose bushes those thorns keep everything away. Or maybe some larger trees so they can't run them over.



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Dave

01-19-2004 09:25:23




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
Being a snowmoblier I would suggest buy a roll of that bright orange or yellow warning tape and stringing that up, it's cheap and visable and says without a doubt "Stay out", if that dosen't work, a 12 guage will do just fine!
LOL
later,dave



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Greywolf

01-19-2004 07:37:58




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 Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Bill, 01-19-2004 07:12:53  
That one would be a question for your insurance company and your attorney.

That being said, a whole bunch of "private property" placards afixed to the fence at close intervals would be a minimum in my opinion.

There have been locally one or two fatalities within the last 5 yrs from snowmobilers running into a cable strung across a vacant farm place driveway. But I have never heard if/what the legal ramifications were to the land owner.

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Mac

01-19-2004 10:48:13




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 Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Greywolf, 01-19-2004 07:37:58  
Had the same peoblem with snowmobiles and 4 wheelers. Seemed property that was not fenced or had a house on it was "their Property". Sometimes that made no difference either. Signs did no good, I have seen them stop, rip off the sign and tear it up. Your property, but it seems if you call the law, you are an old SOB, if you fence and they run into it, you get sued. No I think a guy needs to find where they come from, get a 4 wheel drive and tear the living S--- out of there property. Knew a guy that buried harrows upside down to entrance ways, they ruined tires and he was a SOB for doing so. I stopped a few, they say well where are we going to ride?? Well right here if you can buy my property. They live in the city and have no place to ride, so out to the country they go. Lack of respect I guess.

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Ray,IN

01-19-2004 21:30:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Keeping snowmobilers out in reply to Mac, 01-19-2004 10:48:13  
In Indiana the land owner has a legal right to confiscate any items used in trespassing; then must protect that property from further damage. I have collected several deer stands and transported several house dogs to the pound(Indiana has leash laws). I have a marked electric fence(1 strand barbed) around the property that is streched tight and fastened to heavy posts to contain my cattle, just inside the old boundry fence. The 4whlers who used to trespass got the message and no longer chase my cattle or destroy fences. One of the offenders had the nerve to complain he now has nowhere to ride, I replied he should ride in his own front yard.

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