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Cost of adding more electrical service?

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David in UT

01-16-2004 21:34:14

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Hi all,

I'm thinking about buying the welder I've been drooling over for a year or so, but I need to run 230 power to the garage to make it happen. The trick is that the breaker box in the house is maxed out already, and I only a 100 amp main breaker. The welder runs off single phase power, and the manufacturer suggests an 80 amp breaker. I'm thinking that I need to not just add in another breaker box but I also need to upgrade the service to the house.

I'm definately out of my comfort zone on residential electrical stuff. I can pull wire and install boxes, but I'd want a professional to make the connections at the breaker box and such.

Any ideas how much I should be prepared to shell out to have an electrician upgrade my service and install a new box? (I really only need one 230 outlet and a couple of 110 outlets, although if I'm going to do it, I might just as well drop a second 230 outlet in the garage in case I ever get around to having a serious air compressor.)

Thanks for the help!

- David

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buickanddeere

01-17-2004 09:09:34

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

When changing the electrical service,especually anything to do with the meter base. It's cheap to install one with the built in isolation/transfer switch and standby generator receptacle. Or wish later when the power goes out that there was one there. Sure beats these hazard hack jobs with extention cords run through windows. Or the nasty " back feed through the welder plug" trick. Running neutral current through the welder ground will creat circulating currents that can wreck equipment and pose a shock hazard. Risking a backfeed and killing linesmen isn't good either. Plus your generator can get smoked. Two sad faced tinkerers just brought thier back-fed generator into the Father-inlaws shop wondering if it could be repaired cheap?

Link

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Hermit

01-17-2004 08:22:52

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

You might want to check if the electric company has to change out your transformer to support the larger service requirement. Could cost more than a few dollars.

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David in UT

01-17-2004 08:30:39

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Re: Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to Hermit, 01-17-2004 08:22:52

Great advice guys! The garage is definately attached to the house, and the service comes in from underground. From everyone's notes, it's pretty clear that I need to do the upgrade, but I hadn't thought about asking the electrical inspector to help design it out. Thanks!

- David

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Carl

01-17-2004 07:28:07

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

Hi Dave, I had a large shop built about 1 1/2 years ago. There is a power pole 30-feet from the shop. The power company here in the Seattle area pays for the first 150-feet. I had a licensed electrician do all the work and supply all the material. He installed a 200 amp Cutler Hammer, 42 space breaker box, but with only one 20amp breaker. Here to pass Labor & Industry inspection you are required to have one light, and one GFI 120-volt outlet. Once you pass the inspection. The electrical company comes out runs the wires from the pole to your rain cap, (POWER) total cost $ just over $900.00 Then I did the rest. With the Cutler Hammer box, breakers are real cheap at Home Depot. Carl

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John Humphrey Morocco IN.

01-17-2004 06:32:01

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

David, I didn`t take time to read the other post, as I have to get dressed and go uot to feed the critters and then come in and feed the other ones in the house. As an electrican, I will offer you the setup I have been using, which is to put the 200 amp service on the shop building and run a 100 amp feed to the house. The house will run, and has been running on 100 amps just fine. Your local power supplier can look at your setup and tell you if this will work. An afternoon with a trencher and some wire will get it roughed in. If there are any rocks in your ground, put your wire in 4" drain pipe, or the cheapest thing you can find. Then you have the heavy feed where you need it the most. Your welder will work much better. John

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john

01-17-2004 06:00:34

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

Well I can not quote cost either but things you need to consider. You probably should upgrade to a 200 amp system.
While your feed line may or may not need replacing that is usually elec. companies problem. But every thing from your rain cap down will need replacing and that is yours. 100 amp wires from rain cap and 100 amp meter pan can not be used on a 200 amp system. Then you will need a 200 amp breaker box with extra breakers. The electricity will have to be shut off at the pole to replace all this and will not be turned on till it is complete. so you are correct to get a electrician to do it.
A new 200 amp box; meter pan; and 00 wire is going to cost about $250.00 to 300. just for the parts plus labor. While you could run your extra wire and install boxes in the garage is the electrician going to hook it to the box. Better ask first. Some will some won't. It is a labiality thing. You run the wire and chafe it while installing and he hooks it to the box causing a fire; Who is at fault?
Now on the other hand is your garage attached to the house or not. From your post I think it is; but if it is not you could just add a new system in the unattached garage hook it up your self at your own pace. Have it inspected to make sure every thing is correct and then have a new feed run to it and save big bucks because you can do it yourself.

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Greywolf

01-17-2004 04:44:03

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

Can't help with the cost factor. But one thing to keep in mind is if you only have 100 Amp now coming in and want to go higher, your feed lines may have to be upgraded as well. That might or might not require a complete new service brought in, not just replacing the box with a bigger main breaker.

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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-16-2004 23:20:28

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Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to David in UT, 01-16-2004 21:34:14

Hello David, If I was in your position, I would do the project myself. The first issue is to find out if a home owner is allowed to do that type of work. In our area it is not a problem. I would plan on putting in a new 200 Amp service. Home depot and Lowes, to name a couple, have service panel packages. They usually have a display set up in the store. Take some time and study it. You might also check out books or manuals which covers panel replacement These service panel packages usually include about everything you need with the exception needing to buy some more breakers. The next step would be to contact your local electrical inspector. Tell him what you want to do. It is a good idea to have the inspector meet you at your home. Ask him for help and guidance. Most inspectors will be glad to help you, if they know that it is your desire to do everything correctly. In regards to the electrical code. Remember your inspector is not going to allow you to get power reconnected, if it is not correct.
Most likly, if you have not done one before, you will have to redo something ( Not A Big Deal). If you take it step by step it is not that difficult.
The whole reason to do it your self is to save a lot of money. In our area, $1000 + is about the savings over having a electrical contractor. Hope this helps you in making your decision, Joe

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Scott Green

01-17-2004 06:40:55

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Re: Re: Cost of adding more electrical service? in reply to Benj. J. Joe Browning, 01-16-2004 23:20:28

If your thinking of a complete new service to the garage , I would first call the electric company. Have them send out an engineer. Tell the engineer what you would like to do. The engineer will design the new service. Now , get hold of the electrical inspector. Show him the drawing from the engineer. If everyone agrees , then your good to go. Sometimes the engineer and the inspector just don't see eye to eye on things. Cover the bases. If your talking about upgrading the house service. Then running a sub panel out to the garage , then just call the electrition.

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steveormary

01-17-2004 10:22:00

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Re: Re: Re: Cost of adding more electrical service in reply to Scott Green, 01-17-2004 06:40:55

You should check with the local AHJ (athurity having jurisdiction) or electrical inspector. You may be able to set new panel in garage and sub feed the house panel. Also get estimates from local electricians.

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