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Broken Head Bolt

A FEW QUESTIONS ???

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Alberta Mike

08-09-2000 07:24:45




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Checked out this forum yesterday and the responses seem much more numerous that some of the others so I'm going to try here for this one. I picked up a little Avery A with a flathead Hercules engine. I haven't started any restoration on it until I get it going. Last week I noticed the front right head bolt (not a stud/nut configuration) was sitting about 3/16" above the surface of the head and I figured that somebody had turned it out a few turns then gave up on it or forgot about it. Well, the bolt came right out having been snapped off probably years ago further down it's length somewhere. Here are a couple of questions:

1. If I get the tractor running 'as is', what do you think my chances are that it will work OK and not leak coolant with that head bolt the way it is?

2. If I attempt to take off the head, any suggestions on removing the remaining bolts without suffering the same fate as the first guy did?

3. What is the best method of getting out the broken bolt (thinking the method might be different depending on where it snapped)?

Thanks for your help. Mike

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clooney

08-09-2000 17:51:16




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 Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 08-09-2000 07:24:45  
Alberta Mike, I have had good luck getting out those broken head bolts that are broken off way down in there by finding a piece of pipe or heavy wall tubing that will just fit in the stud hole. Then after sliding it down on top of the stud I wrap a 6011 welding rod with a thin layer of tape & go down through the center of the pipe & weld it to the stud, while it is still hot I start working it back and forth until it comes out.

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Beitz

08-12-2000 04:51:47




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 Re: Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to clooney, 08-09-2000 17:51:16  
After you tryed all the other guys ideas...
If you still can't get it out....
Just drill it out the best you can and re tap it...Slide a small sleave or pipe in the hole to keep your drill bit centerd.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-09-2000 14:21:49




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 Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 08-09-2000 07:24:45  
Hi Mike,
If you decide the engine is worth salvaging, I have a couple of suggestions in regard to removing the broken bolt, as well as , the other remaining bolts.

I'm going to tell you about products my company sells that work well for this type application. I would appreciate your business, but, it won't hurt my feelings if you get these things elsewhere. If I can help you out, tell someone else.

We have a penetrant called "PB Blaster". It is the best penetrant I have seen personally. That's why we have it. I would saturate the broken bolt and the other bolts before trying to remove any of them.

In regard to the broken bolt, if it is not broken off too far down, (1/4" or less) It would be fairly easy to weld it out by building up the bolt with something like our #2200 and then welding a washer to the bead. Lastly, weld a nut to the washer and remove the broken stub before it cools completely. Using the right rod is important here as the threads need to fill with slag and not weld metal. I can give more details via e-mail if you want.

Secondly, if you don't feel comfortable welding it out, there are left hand drills and a couple of different styles of easy outs available. The left hand drills will sometimes break the bolt loose w/o using an easy out. We have all this if interested and I will provide a link to our site if you want to look at the 2200. http://www.usalloysweldtech.com
HTH,
Steve

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Dean

08-10-2000 07:04:35




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 Re: Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-09-2000 14:21:49  
Steve is right, PB Blaster is the best penetrant there is. I know, I've used most of them. The only thing I would add is to apply the PB Blaster the day before you want to remove the bolt. Tap lightly with a hammer several times after application. Let it sit overnight. Re-apply in the morning, tap a few more times and I think you'll be happy with the result.



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Nathan(GA)

08-09-2000 19:47:07




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 Re: Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 08-09-2000 14:21:49  
Steve, I can vouch for the PB Blaster. It's good stuff. We used it in the plant where I used to work. There was an old guy in the maint. dept. said you could spray some on the roots of a coconut tree and the coconuts would start to fall off. :)



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Steve U.S. Alloys

08-10-2000 05:21:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Nathan(GA), 08-09-2000 19:47:07  
Hi Nathan,
One of my customers gave me some when I told them I had heated a couple of old pump parts and they still wouldn't come apart. I was amazed at how well and how fast it worked.

We find a lot of good items thru word of mouth and from testimonials from customers. I've also learned more about welding that way than I could learn in a classroom. Steve



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Lou

08-09-2000 14:08:37




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 Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 08-09-2000 07:24:45  
Hi Mike,

IF you determine the engine is worth repairing, as Dave suggested it may not be, than I would try soaking the remaining bolts down with break-free, available at gun shops, if not at hardware stores, WD40, and other penatrants for a looooong period of time. Soak them, leave them, soak them leave them... I'd do this for at least a week. Some of the penatrant is likely to seep in, but not likely much. Others may have better advice.

As for getting the bolt out, I would try a reversed twisted drill bit. It will heat the bolt and often once heated, due to the direction of the twist on the bit, the bolt will come out.

If not, then you are left with using a helicoil to repair the threads, as you will have to use a drill bit as large as the bolt next to get it out. This will destroy the current threads.

There are systems other than helicoil, and some may even be better, perhaps someone else will have a better suggestion, but in want of a better method, this is what I would try. I hope all works out for you.

Lou

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Dave in Mo

08-09-2000 12:57:36




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 Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 08-09-2000 07:24:45  
Mike, assess condition of the whole engine before you spend a lot of time and money on it. We picked a different Hercules engine cheap from a bone yard because the one in our General needed a lot of work. There seems to be a lot of those engines around. My 2 cents worth.



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DC Dale

08-09-2000 09:17:55




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 Re: Broken Head Bolt - A FEW QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 08-09-2000 07:24:45  
Mike, check the archives, there have been huge discussions on this. It would be very unlikly that you could get the gasket to seal without that bolt being tight.



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