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Small band sawmills, anybody been around one?

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Butch

01-11-2004 17:40:30




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Any of you have experiences with the small manualy operated band sawmills Like Hud-Son or Wood Mizer? I have been on a couple wood working forums and there seems to be a big differance of opinion about them. I wonder if the sawing pros cuss them because they are not quite up to their standards for production or quality or if they are realy that hard to produce decent lumber with? All I want to do is saw up some beams and boards to build an addition on my barn and repair existing structures. Not trying to set production records, nor do I care if the boards are off a fraction from perfect. I own some woods, have the time and it looks like one of the manual band mills would pay for itself in short order in my situation. I have been around a chainsaw mill and don't like them, the cost of a regular circular saw mill is a whole lot more than I'll ever save in lumber. Just looking for more opinions I guess, thank you.

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LarryG

01-14-2004 16:32:34




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
I've sawn up about 2000 bf of red oak with a Rip-Saw. Totally manual, no blade lubrication, and under $2000. It's ok for somebody who wants to occaisionally saw up a tree. Have to keep the blade sharp or it wants to wander, but that's probably true with any band saw.



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treeboy

01-12-2004 16:59:04




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
check with your county agent & see who has a portable band mill, wood mizer's are great but the others will cut boards too... if noting else pay by the hour & help the guy saw (I DO), and i work at a mill .....well i buy standing timber, but i'm, guilty of stacking boards too...be careful



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Butch(OH)

01-12-2004 07:58:54




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
Thanks a lot guys, the mills I am looking at are even cheaper than the ones you are talking about and are pure manual (push) feed and controled. Looking at 30" models in the 5k price range with and without power. I have mostly sycamore and poplar to use and their value to sell is virtualy nill so it's not like I need to consider their worth along with the mill investment and repairs. Anybody who has bought a truckload of lumber lately knows it doesn't take long to add up a 5K bill at a lumber yard when talking amounts to frame a barn. I'm thinking that at the end of my barn project the mill is very close to paid for and it will be there for future work virtualy debt free. There are some guys around here that saw by the foot or hour with the higher priced band mills but I just hate to rent stuff unless there is a clear advantage to it, in this case I'm not sure. Thanks again, Butch

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bob

01-12-2004 21:21:25




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 Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around o in reply to Butch(OH), 01-12-2004 07:58:54  
I hope you're not going to try to make anything out of the Sycamore. It's worthless for any kind of outdoor use & only good indoors as firewood. If the poplar you're talking about is yellow-poplar it will be ok as long as it is up off the ground. If not sure of species check with local county forester. I once saw sycamore used as fence posts! They were straight, plentiful, close & good for one year.

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Van in AR

01-23-2004 11:37:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been arou in reply to bob, 01-12-2004 21:21:25  
Sycamore makes great pallets they use it for upolstored furniture and railroad ties if treated.Easy to cut and handle also due to being soft and the smooth bark.
Van



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snitkawl

01-13-2004 03:51:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been arou in reply to bob, 01-12-2004 21:21:25  
You don`t know very much about sycamore. The styles of my kitchen cabinets are sycamore, my house is trimmed in flat sawn sycamore, and my dad trimmed his house in quarter sawn sycamore.



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Butch

01-13-2004 04:36:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been in reply to snitkawl, 01-13-2004 03:51:37  
Until recently I had assumed that the sycamore and poplar (aka cotton wood) was worthless for lumber because when I had my woods logged a few years ago they offered me almost nothing for them so I left them stand. That was the basis for my statement that they carry no value for lumber. If I were to cut up walnut or cherry for barn beams I surely would have to hold their value for cabnet lumber against the barn beams I made from them, be some darned expensive barn framing lumber in either case. I sure get a laugh when I see people cutting up veneer grade walnut for firewood. You are correct in I know little about lumber, and almost nothing about sawing it or that matter. Trying to learn.

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snitkawl

01-13-2004 16:10:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody b in reply to Butch, 01-13-2004 04:36:31  
Poplar and cottonwood are in the same family but are not the same. Kind of like Honey locust and Black locust. I`ve sawn several million bd ft of cottonwood but there is no poplar in this part of Missouri.



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VaTom

01-13-2004 05:16:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody b in reply to Butch, 01-13-2004 04:36:31  
Butch, both sycamore and tulip poplar are common secondary woods in the furniture industry, or what's left of it. Price loggers quote depends entirely on what the mill is paying that week. Varies a great deal.

Sycamore is more difficult to dry without severe checking. I used poplar for a post&beam (6x6, 6x8,6x10) building. Won't do that again. I've seen successful poplar beams, but I experienced a lot of checking. For thinner lumber, poplar is extremely easy, and fast, to dry. Around here it's commonly used as siding, but must be kept well-drained.

It's common to mistake veneer grade logs. They really are rare. But even FAS logs should be considered as to their use. Lower grades, worth much less, are easy to justify as post&beam material of almost any wood. Until you understand the grading, you're working in the dark.

I have my own woodlot to sell boards and bring in a portable band mill occasionally. Thought about buying one but I'm only paying $30-40/hr which translates into about $.25/sq ft (not bd ft). I get help, sometimes very skilled, sometimes not, plus the machine for that $30-40, which strikes me as cheap, considering the investment they've made. I don't enjoy the work enough to invest in the mill to use as a business and can't see spending the money for a better mill and have it sit around all year. I'm not familiar with the mill you're thinking about but can't imagine it could compete with a $30k mill. Should work, but you'll put far more hours into getting the lumber. Unless you don't consider your time worth much of anything, that gets expensive. Good luck with your decision.

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Kevin

01-12-2004 14:42:12




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 Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around o in reply to Butch(OH), 01-12-2004 07:58:54  
Local guy here set up and sawed for $200 per thousand board feet, considering the amount of time he spent cutting my logs, he only earned about 8.00 per hour after expenses. I call that cheap back breaking labor!



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Hal/WA

01-11-2004 23:37:43




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
My brother has a band saw mill and I think he has about $10k invested in it, if I remember correctly. I do not remember the brand name, but it has a Honda gas engine, the carriage self feeds at adjustable speeds, when it gets to the end of the log the carriage flips around so it can saw the next board the other way, it has dogs and log turners made out of electric screw jacks that are powered by the engine electrical system, and it will handle logs that are up to 20 feet long.

It took some work to set up the sawmill and to get the track stable and level. It turns out very smooth lumber and I would guess that it could put out very consistant 1/2" boards. The saw blades do not have a whole lot of "set" to them and cut with a very thin kerf and the sawdust is quite fine. It seemed to me that it cut fairly fast, but probably it would be slow compared to a real production sawmill with a circular blade. My brother only has evergreen trees on his property, so that is all he has cut up. I have some mature birch trees that are starting to die. Maybe I will take them down and haul the logs to my brother's place so we can see how the saw works on birch.

There are probably less expensive mills available, but unless you have a lot of trees on your property and really want to do the work yourself, it might make the most sense to have someone with a portable saw come to your property and work over logs you have stacked. Like most things there is a definite learning curve in finding out how to work such a saw efficiently, and $10K would be a serious investment for me. I have seen advertisements where people offer to come to a customers property with their band saw mills, but have never called to see how much it costs. There probably is a set-up and transportation charge and then so much per cut or per thousand board feet cut.

My brother has thousands of trees on his property and wants to build a number of buildings. He also really likes working in the woods and with sawmills. He has some thought of producing some lumber for sale, but so far has only used it himself. He has another old circular saw that he fooled with for more than 10 years, but could never get working just right for any length of time, so he constantly had to tinker with it. The bandsaw mill does a great job and seldom has any problems at all.

Good luck, band saw mills are really neat!

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TimV

01-11-2004 20:27:29




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
Butch: We have owned a Wood-Mizer LT-40 for over 20 years. They are a well-made unit, and the company stands firmly behind their product. They are the best small band mill made, bar none. However, that excellence comes with a hefty price tag, and the newer full-hydraulic and computer-controlled mills will set you back $20K or more. Of course, they also make smaller mills, and good used saws are availible if you look. With regard to accuracy, Wood-Mizer guarantees you will be able to saw a board the thickness of a dime down the entire length of the bed, or the saw doesn't leave the dealer. After 20 years of sawing, we can still do this with ours. I have seen several other brands, and some are excellent rigs, while others are poorly designed and cheaply built. However, if you get a decent one, they are an economical way to turn out very nice lumber. We paid for our saw within two years, and have saw many thousand feet since then.

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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-11-2004 20:27:10




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
Hello Butch, You might try Linn Lumber(www.linnlumber.com) He builds a nice mill. If you have welding skills, you can save a lot of money. He will sell any or all of his mills. You build the rest. Prices are not that expensive. Hope this helps. Joe



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bonnan bui

01-11-2004 18:59:20




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
Butch,
What don't you like about a chainsaw mill? Have you seen the Logosol mill? I've used one to do just what you want to do. Cost about 3100,cuts smooth and accurate. Check www.logosol.com
Good luck



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David Bacon

01-11-2004 18:54:42




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
I have been around numerous ones, and I got a video of one. The comment we hear in NE Iowa is like heat houser just stated. The biggest thing is a big tree can grow faster than the band saw can cut it up. The real advantage is if you are sawing used lumber with a nail or two, the band saw is by far the better option, as changing out a blade is faster, and by far cheaper. I did however just purchase a old mill, for some reason totaly unknown to me for $400.00 It needs lots of tender love, but is complete. Either saw will provide just as much recreation and justification as a old tractor.

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Chris Brown

01-11-2004 18:43:54




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
I didn't own it ,but I ran a kasco band mill. I sawed around 3000 bdf over two weekends. It had a B&S vanguard 16 . It had power raise and lower for the head and power assist on the carrige feed. It was a nice little mill.It was not as fast as a $16,000 wood miser,but he told me it cost about $4000. I would like to own one just like it.



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Heat Houser

01-11-2004 18:28:02




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
Here in NE Iowa a guy has one that I hire to saw up my lumber. You will get more boards by using a band saw than a circular saw. The circular saw takes a 1/4 inch kerf and leaves a much rougher surface. This means a lot of times through the planer to get them smooth. When I saw logs and want finished lumber, I ask for 7/8 inch boards. With the smoother cut from the band saw, the boards will easily clean up to 3/4. If you want construction lumber, have them sawed to nominal size. i.e. 2X4 is 1.5 X 3.5 inches. I would recomend the band saw but I would first check to see if someone has one in your area. The guy charged $250/1000BF to saw.

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Van(WA)

01-11-2004 18:21:07




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
Butch;; A retired cop has one in this area, and he custon cuts up peoples logs. He cut up a couple of logs for me, and I watched the operation for several hours.It was a band saw with hyd on it, did a nice job, but think he had over 20X invested in it, it was portable, but looked like a tough way to make a buck.



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D.L.

01-11-2004 18:05:17




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 Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around one? in reply to Butch, 01-11-2004 17:40:30  
I've seen a few... the company I work for used to sell one (not sure if we still do or not) (check www.woodworker.com) and, I saw one that Grizzly (I can't believe I'm saying this) sells, at the International Woodworking show in Atlanta in 2002. All I've seen work well! The difference in price will buy you a larger engine, perhaps a power feed, or a hydraulic system to load the logs. Even the most basic mill I've seen cuts pretty accurate boards... you can adjust the depth of cut to produce any lumber you want! Wood mizer is a brand that's been around quite a while... what ever you buy, might want to check out warranty info, who manufactures the engine, bearings used, etc.

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Alvin n Ms.

01-11-2004 19:05:55




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 Re: Re: Small band sawmills, anybody been around o in reply to D.L., 01-11-2004 18:05:17  
I am a sawmill worker left over from the 50s, and I am here to tell you that the small band saw mills do terrific work. I hired a guy with a Woodmizer to saw some logs for me a few years back, and he could cut up to 20ft lenghts. The boards were the same thickness, from one end to the other. He charged by the board ft. I think about $200.00 per thousand. Unless you are going into the business, that is the way to go, for dog on sure as the going price is 10k and up, and that is very hard work made look easy by people that have experience. alvinnms

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