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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Convert stick to TIG

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DaveCA

01-06-2004 04:58:49




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Can I convert my old Forney into a TIG. I think I talked to some one years ago, who said there ie a way to convert a buzz box over. What kind of welder is good for this? How's it done? Thank you in advance.




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DaveCA

01-07-2004 05:57:18




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 Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-06-2004 04:58:49  
Thanks for all trhe responses. I Have (besides the forney) a Lincoln SP175 220v mig now and use it because I guess I got spoiled by the speed and ease compared to the stick.
I am thinking of the tig because I want to do a little alum now and then. I am also a bit nervous about lack of penetration with occasional 3/8 to 1/2 inch steel using the mig with .035. I'm living proof that ya can teach an old dog new tricks, the problem is, remembering them.
Gotta go now. I appreciate you sharing the knowledge.

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Jeff

01-07-2004 07:50:37




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 Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-07-2004 05:57:18  
3/8-1/2 isnt a problem, I do it with an older SP150.

You just have to (I think it's called) a fillet
weld, basically you grind a V between the two pieces being joined, then do a several pass
weld to fill in the V. The V extends about
halfway the depth of the metal.



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DaveCA

01-09-2004 17:43:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to Jeff, 01-07-2004 07:50:37  
Thank you Jeff, Sounds like good advice there. Has that machine held up well? Is that 110 or 220V. Have you tried welding alum with it?



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Jeff

01-10-2004 19:51:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-09-2004 17:43:23  
I've had this older SP150 for 20 years almost.
(220V)

Its my "go to" machine, I actually like it better
than my Lincoln 250DX.

I dont do AL with a MIG, thats what my TIG
welder is for... :)



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Slowpoke

01-07-2004 21:53:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to Jeff, 01-07-2004 07:50:37  
I was told that TIG will not work good for steel of that thickness.



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DaveCA

01-09-2004 05:42:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to Slowpoke, 01-07-2004 21:53:09  
Hi S;owpoke,
Uhuh, and I was told so many times that ya can't do a good weld on over 3/16 thick steel with 175 amp wire welder, that it had me wondering. Of course you havta be careful how you do it. Good to have someone here who's done welding more than a few hundred times.
Thank you for the help getting this clear.



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T_Bone

01-08-2004 05:14:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to Slowpoke, 01-07-2004 21:53:09  
you would need a AC HF add on box to weld Al with Tig. Try welding it with oxy/acet as it works well. Use a piece of scrap for filler rod and preclean before using.

There's no material thickness limitation to using the Tig process on any of the common metals. With mild steel you need to preclean the filler rod very well as well as the weld joint.

The last Tig job I did was 6ft diameter 3/4" thick mild steel blast valves at a nuclear power plant. A short #10 cup with 3/32" 2% tungsten. would lay the cup in the V and rock the cup back and forth. Thats where the term "rocking a weld in" got started in that type of joint. This was not a root only Tig weld. 100% Tig all the way. Several months of welding to complete one valve.

Mig works very well on 1/2" plate, infact theres much less chance that a cold lapp will happen on the thicker material. Start the arc back about 1/2" from the end the proceed quickly to the end then continue in the wanted direction of travel.

If you want to besure you removed all cold lapp then grinding the frist 3/4' along with stagered start points is the key.

T_Bone

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Slowpoke

01-09-2004 00:41:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to T_Bone, 01-08-2004 05:14:52  
What's a #10 cup? Is it rocked on the molten metal
and why do it?



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DaveCA

01-09-2004 05:53:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to Slowpoke, 01-09-2004 00:41:35  
Hi Slowpoke,
I will attempt some help. A cup is the thing that the gas comes out of at the business end of the torch. 10 is the size. Rocking is likely, the way your wrist moves while moving torch side to side maintaining the same distance from the metal and pointing the arc pretty directly at each pieces your joining so your shure your burning into each piece.



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T_Bone

01-09-2004 08:19:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-09-2004 05:53:14  
Hi slowpoke,

As Dave said #10 refers to the cup size. A #7 large cup I found is just about the right size for 90% of Tig welding.

A #10 mini cup is shorter in length and about 3/4" diameter. Not a very useful cup size for 90% of Tig welding as it blocks your vision to the molten puddle. This allows you to position the cup in the V groove and makes the torch very steady. Since Tig is a slower welding process, hand fatique comes into play so any advantage is useful. Since the cup is supported in the V then you can control more amps and thus faster welding can be obtained before hand fatique sets in.

Rocking the cup with-in the V increases your over all froward travel speed while precise controling the molten puddle. When your weld is done it appears the weld was layed in with a machine, very sharp contours with a uniform bead much like what automatic welding looks like.

The cup never comes into contact with the molten puddle as the pool cools enough before the cup is rocked forward in a small figure 8 patteren.

T_Bone

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Slowpoke

01-09-2004 09:34:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to T in reply to T_Bone, 01-09-2004 08:19:01  
Oooh, I see. I once saw an 8" circular tig weld. It was the best work ever.
Thanks for the lesson.



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T_Bone

01-06-2004 17:09:31




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 Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-06-2004 04:58:49  
Hi Dave,

If it's a DC machine then you can add scratch start TIG, meaning there's no high frequency to jump start the arc from the tungston to the work. I used that for many years before I found companys willing to spend the extra money for better equipment.

You will need:
a Tig torch
flowmeter
cover gas.

T_Bone



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DaveCA

01-08-2004 05:55:40




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 Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to T_Bone, 01-06-2004 17:09:31  
Hi T_Bone, Not a life and death matter, if I find a good price on a used torch I will give it a try. This is not for full time use. i am concerned about welding thick material with a little welder. Can you or someone else having a pretty complete understanding offer advice about welding thick steel? If I watch my P's and Q's do you think a multi-pass weld, with .035 ER70-S6, 75/25, using the SP175-240V, cranked up as high as the wire can stand, would be a strong weld for 3/8+ mild steel? A little pre-heat would help, correct? I will do some more testing but appreciate there is lots I still don't know after 30+ years of occasional welding. Might seem like using the stick machine would be easier, but I'm usually already set up to go with the wire machine, I enjoy using it and don't do a lot of 3/8+ at home. Thanks again.

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T_Bone

01-08-2004 10:15:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-08-2004 05:55:40  
Hi Dave,

Your machine can do a easy 1/4" thick single root pass. Then the next two passes should be your cover pass.

To run a test piece and prove this to yourself, take a 3/8" or 1/2" plate, bevel each piece 22.5* with leaving a 1/16" land with a root opening 1-1/2 times your wire diameter. Tack weld both ends. Place on your welding bench at about a 15* angle "off" the table, then run a single pass down. When that pass is finished, let cool then stick the test into a vise about 1/3 of the width, then with a large pipe wrench with a cheater, break the weld into.

Now compare both haves of the weld. The weld should idealy break down the center with equal amount of weld on both pieces with a equal amount of penetration. If not practice until it does or close too it :).

I won't define, land, root, face, leg as thats been covered in my previous posts in the archives. I crashed both my puters and haven't finished moving my files to my new machine. Ohh what a fine new machine it is :) :) :)

T_Bone

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DaveCA

01-09-2004 05:17:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to T_Bone, 01-08-2004 10:15:42  
Hi T_Bone,
I appreciate the help from someone with your level of experience. I read your other post after posting this one. I'm setting puter up with two HD's so backups are ultra fast. Sounds like yer havin' fun there. I'm runnin just under 2 Gigahertz, do they really need faster?



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DaveCA Ooops!

01-09-2004 05:25:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-09-2004 05:17:15  
Quote from my last post: "I read your other post after posting this one." Change that to: I read your post to Slowpoke after I posted my last one. whew



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T_Bone

01-09-2004 08:49:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA Ooops!, 01-09-2004 05:25:13  
Hi Dave,

I asked that same question when I changed from a 486hz to a 60mhz cpu, wow what a speed increase. This one I jumped from a 300mhz to a 2.4ghz. Although the overall speed is not as noticeable for my use, my overall speed has increased to a acceptable level for internet use on a 56k ISP running at 28k (I'm in the boondocks).

I went with a Toshiba A10 series laptop, 40g HDD, 256mb ram, USB/lan ports, CD-RW/DVD, 15" TFT with XP/home, 56k V.92. I added a MS optic keyboard and mouse.

I'm extreamly pleased with XP as it doesn't crash as often and is much earier to fix when it does. I like that restore feature alot.

About the only disappointment is the battery will not last as long as Toshiba spec's. About 75minutes on full power.

Next is going with a wireless lan for the house.

T_Bone

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Jeff

01-06-2004 16:43:42




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 Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-06-2004 04:58:49  
There are many units that convert stick
to TIG, but none are close to what a stand alone
TIG can do...



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old

01-06-2004 11:15:17




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 Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to DaveCA, 01-06-2004 04:58:49  
It can be done but I've been told it cost more then just getting a tig set up to start with. Check at your local welding suppy house and they should be able to tell you the ins and outs of it



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Slowpoke

01-06-2004 14:10:32




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 Re: Re: Convert stick to TIG in reply to old, 01-06-2004 11:15:17  
I just received a catalog from HTP America. They have several pieces of tig equipment and adapters, plus welders and other stuff. They advertise in farm and restoration magazines.
www.usaweld.com



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