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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Pole barn posts

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Dave

01-01-2004 19:29:12




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Fingure I better get mine started since CCA treated lumber is about to go away,and the new stuff will be $$$.My question is,would using 3 pieces of 2X6 nailed together,with grain alternated,be any stronger than a 6"X6"? Also,is there any advantage to dipping or painting the part of the post that'll be buried with something like foundation tar,to protect it a little more? Or,would I just be trapping moisture in? Thnks,Dave

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ONE PROBLEM IS,

01-03-2004 16:26:21




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
Most flat lumber (2x6's ect..) are .40 rention, where 4x6's ect... are .60 retention!! .40 rots fairly fast in some soils!!!



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David - OR

01-03-2004 08:47:28




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
The poles in a pole barn provide both vertical load bearing and resistance to wind blowing perpendicular to the wall.

3 2x6 boards will come out to 4.5 inches by 5.5 inches. A 6x6 is 5.5 by 5.5 inches. So the "laminated post" has only 85 % of the cross sectional area.

However, the design value for compression parallel to the grain for a Number 2 6x6 Hem-fir post is 575 PSI. The size adjusted value for a 2x6 Hem-Fir is 1430 PSI. So the laminated post has almost twice the gross bearing strength.

Gross load bearing is usually not the issue in a column of any significant height. The ability to carry weight depends upon the height of the column and the stiffness of the post in both the in-plane and out-of-plane directions. In-plane stiffness can be improved with horizontal bracing, such as the horizontal girt boards typically applied.

A set of three nailed 2x6's has a dubious shear strength, not to mention a smaller dimension in one axist than the 6x6 post. So it becomes important to orient the 2x6 laminated post such that the 5.5 inch dimension is perpendicular to the plane of the wall.

Our laminated column is very weak in the 4.5 inch direction, and needs to be laterally restrained. Horizontal girts typically used to carry the sheat metal walls can provide adequate in-plane restraint, assuming a spacing of 4 feet on center (or thereabouts) and reasonable nailing and/or metal plate connectors are used. Gluing the plies of the 2x6's together could provide additional shear strength in the weak axis, but is not necessary if the girts are present.

The embedded poles are usually also asked to provide resistance to wind blowing perpendicular to the plane of the wall. Here again, the laminated post is a clear winner over a 6x6, but ONLY if the 5.5 inch dimension is oriented perpendicular to the wall. Consideration should be given to use of two posts, oriented in opposite directions, at each building corner.

I don't understand how to "alternate the grain" of the three laminations. All three boards should have the grain should oriented parallel to the length of the post (i.e the board is vertically loaded in the same way as the tree it once was). One could alternate the curvature of the growth rings, but this provides no particular benefit other than possibly reducing cupping or twisting of the composite beam as it dries. But such an issue seems unlikely for pressure treated wood, given the moisture control used in its manufacture.

It is important to stagger any joints in the individual plies relative to the joints in the other two plies.

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Jim in michigan

01-02-2004 20:05:48




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
Local company just built one up teh road from me at the same time I was building mine,,they used laminated columns of 2x6's sandwiched. they used treated on the bottom where it would go in the ground and the rest was regular,, the cost was less then half what I paid for my 6x6's and the columns were not nearly as warped..I wish I had known about the columns before we did the 6x's ...Jim



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D.L.

01-02-2004 14:03:53




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
Hey Dave, I watched with interest about three years ago when a local construction company erected a large commercial building with the method you mentioned... except they used 5 2x6s (probably because the building is so large)... cemented about 5 feet in the ground & offset the ends of each board so when the conventional lumber went in above ground, the joints overlapped for strength. My neighbor also bought and built a pole barn this fall... a kit sold by a regional lumber yard chain... that used the 3 2x6 construction method. He only cemented in about two feet of each post... filled the rest with road base & compacted. Went up really slick & this past week we've had 70mph++ winds... still standing so must be O.K.!!!

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Fern(Mi)

01-02-2004 10:24:26




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
We set our treated (who's ever) posts 42" deep with a horizontal hole drilled 6-8" from bottom. shove in a piece or 3/8' rod or better that'll fit hole. backfill bottom of hole with wet or dry concrete mix. Top hole off with pee-gravel for dranage. When posts rot off, it's within 6" of the earths surface. The rods and concrete keep the posts from settling, heaving or wind lifting. Haven't lost a whole barn yet. Useing utility poles I prefer useing that part that was in the grund. Utility ploe buried near five feet if the earth what ever part I'm useing from there up is in better proteced state. Coveing whats out of the earth shold last if cover from the remaining elements. Hope this helps.

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Casey

01-02-2004 08:21:00




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
I heard on the news that the old treatment for lumber would still be available for commercial applications, it is just being outlawed for applications that are close to human habitations and other places where close contact is possible, such as playground equipment.



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evielboweviel

01-02-2004 07:51:10




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
for what it is worth Morton Bldgs are done with laminated posts. They had the longest structual warrenty when I last checked.



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Brian G. Ny

01-02-2004 16:20:34




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 Re: Re: Pole barn posts in reply to evielboweviel, 01-02-2004 07:51:10  
Right eivel. That's how Morton built my pole bldg. They claim that each 2X6 will be totally penetrated by the preservative while a 6X6 is too thick too receive full penetration. Sounds logical to me. The laminated PT 2X6s are not glued but are nailed together with SS nails. The PT lumber is used only for the first 5 or 6 ft; non PT is used for the rest of the construction.



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kyhayman

01-02-2004 05:30:37




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
This is one of those 'for what it's worth' comments. If you plan to bury the posts I would not use the 3- 2x6's nailed together. Somehow moisture will get between them. If you plan to set them on concrete pillars should be ok.

When we build a barn or building I like to use cedar poles and bury them if I don't have used electric or telephone poles. Co-op charges more for a used pole than a 6x6 costs. I've got one tobacco barn built with alternating grain 2x6 laminates into 6x6 on pillars. It has lasted sine the 60's so I guess it does all right. Personally I dont like it. It just looks 'cheap' to me. My other barns have cedar poles or 6x6's. The cedar posts are set 30" in the ground, some of them were built in the 30's. The one barn with the 6x6 has them untreated oak sitting on 24" high footers but it has a concrete floor.

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Steve-Maine

01-02-2004 02:29:29




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
I build a pole barm a few years ago and got used telephone poles from local phone company. They were glad to get rid of them as they had to pay to get them hauled off. I hired a telephone construction company to set them. Worked out super.



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old

01-01-2004 20:48:42




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
I use 2 inch metal pipe for in the ground any more its cheaper and lasts longer



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Gene Davis (GA.)

01-01-2004 20:25:48




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 Re: Pole barn posts in reply to Dave, 01-01-2004 19:29:12  
The laminated beam is a good thing especially strong if you use a good glue between the alternating grain boards. This is how plywood gets it's strength. Gene Davis



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