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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

FROZEN PROPANE

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Silverwood Mark

12-27-2003 15:24:40




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This is my first year in my new house (a converted cabin) Propane is supplied by 100 lb Propane Cylinders. We use the Propane for Cooking, Hot water and Back up Heat.We use 100 lbs every two weeks. The Propane companies say our house is too small for them to provide a 'Pig'. The Prob that were having is that the Tanks get to the bottom 18 inches or so and freeze. I disconnect it and let is sit a day or so and it works fine again.Yes this is Michigan and the temps been anywhere from 20 to 60 degrees.Ive never heard of large Propane 'pigs' freezing.WHAT CAN I DO TO STOP MY PROPANE CYLINDERS FROM FREEZING?

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Jim in michigan

12-31-2003 21:59:34




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
I had that problem once in the garage, we put a blanket around the tank to keep it a lil warmer, that worked,,I am in the U.P ...Where are you ,,,,Jim



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ted

12-28-2003 22:15:23




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
If you have 2 of them plumbed straight together you could be pulling more gas out of one than the other. When one tank runs out then the other one will freeze up because not enough surface area.



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Larry806

12-28-2003 19:48:33




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
around here ( Oh) those 100 lb cyl's cost over 3 times as much per gal as haveing a pig as you call it. I can buy used 500 gal tanks here for 400.00 I think you would save more than enough in a few winter's to pay for it & not have that problem



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uglyoldfatman

12-28-2003 18:17:01




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
Mark
Propane is put in the tank as a liquid.
In order for it to be used it MUST boil off.
At the boiling point of propane you get--- gas.
It can only boil off at a given rate, and if you are useing it too fast, it will freeze.
A 250-500 gal tank has enough "mass" that it is hard to freeze up.
Buy a 250, and/or get a new gas man. What they want to do is make sure you buy throughout the year, instead of in the summer when the rate/gal. is less.
Good luck.

UG!

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JD

12-28-2003 02:26:40




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
GET OIL HEAT AND ELECTRIC STOVE AND YOU WONT HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS TO WINE ABOUT.



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Hey Goofy

12-28-2003 16:41:10




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 Re: Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to JD, 12-28-2003 02:26:40  
There's one of you in every crowd. Does that JD name refer to the tractor brand? If it does then you should go out and get something red or yellow or blue, then you won't have so much to whine about yourself. Get a life there you silly little boy !!!



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JDuh

12-28-2003 11:00:30




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 Re: Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to JD, 12-28-2003 02:26:40  
Who's WINEING?? The Guy just aske a simple question! Have a nice day!



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John K

12-28-2003 01:41:51




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
Are you sure he is filling with propane or is he using a propane butaine mix. Had filled my motorhome in Mesa AZ. one winter while on holidays, on the way home in Idaho I couldn't run the heater and stove not even two burners at a time. The temp was about 0 F. I have never had this problem before or after as I fill up in Alberta. I know of a truck driver that hauls propane into the US from Alberta to mix with butaine so that it will vaporize at a lower temp, on the trip back he brings butaine to mix with our propane.

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jdemaris

12-27-2003 19:43:08




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
Sounds like you're getting jerked around. I used to have trouble with propane here, and it gets down to -40F on occasion. I found a different gas guy, bought my own 500 gallon tank, and he agreed to fill it at half-price since he only has to come once or twice a year.



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Kevin

12-27-2003 18:59:50




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
Find another supplier. You rate more than enough usage to rate a free tank with purchase of refilling around here!



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RWK in WI

12-27-2003 17:22:08




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
Your 100# cylinders hold about 15 gallons. If you use a cylinder every two weeks the means you use over 300 gallons a year. Most companies say you have to use 200 a year guaranteed to get a tank, or you can rent a tank and have them fill it. If one supplier isn't willing find another. Most areas have at least one supplier that is willing to work with customers. Check around you should find one that will work with you.
That said, We have had luck wraping heating cable like for water pipes around the lower part of tanks while using them on construction sites. Also a radiant heater aimed at the tank can help.
As was suggested below hooking 4 tanks with two to each side is a good setup.

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RusselAZ

12-27-2003 20:08:12




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 Re: Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to RWK in WI, 12-27-2003 17:22:08  
100# propane cylinder holds 24 gallon. Roughly. If it was possible to fill exact it would be 23.6 gallons. 4.24 lbs per gallon. Laydown tanks vaporize better at low liquid levels than upright ones do due to more exposed surface area in contact with the liquid. Which is why a 125 gallon lay down bulk tank will do a better job.



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RWK in WI

12-28-2003 06:03:18




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 Re: Re: Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to RusselAZ, 12-27-2003 20:08:12  
Here in Wis. and the upper Michigan peninsula the bottle gas suppliers wil only put 75 to 80# of gas in a 100# cylinder -- They claim it is in response to the "over fill protection" issue that caused all the 20# cylinders to need to be changed. Is it the same in your area?



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DH in Carolina

12-27-2003 16:32:25




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
he problem you have is that the 100 lb cylinder cannot vaporize enough to supply all the appliances in cold temp. You can get whats called a double manifold and connect two or more cylinders together to give you more capacity. You could use a automatic switchover regulator but in cold temp you are going to have two froze up tanks. No matter what regulator you use make sure the regulator vent is pointed down and protected from freezing water. I don't see why the gas supplier will not set a bigger tant if you use this much gas. Hope this helps.

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T_Bone

12-27-2003 16:11:26




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 Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to Silverwood Mark , 12-27-2003 15:24:40  
Hi Mark,

Buy a two-way gas regulator, RV type. When one cylinder gets close to empty it's pressure will drop lower than the other cylinder and swith to the full cylinder automatically, Then continue to switch back and forth until both cylinders are empty or near empty when cold outside.

RV's use this type of valve and it works well. About $40 at Camping World.

T_Bone



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Alvin n Ms.

12-27-2003 20:57:22




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 Re: Re: FROZEN PROPANE in reply to T_Bone, 12-27-2003 16:11:26  
Could be the regulator. On a motor vehicle there is hot water piped to the regulator to prevent freeze up, even on a very hot day. I used it in a farm tractor for years. Would frost up the entire tank, lines, and regulator, hotest day in july and stop running. alvinnms



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