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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Airlines for shop

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Brown Dirt Cowb

12-26-2003 19:17:06

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I am wanting to run lines from air compressor around my shop the question is will schedule 40 PVC do the trick? On a piece of 3/4" PVC that I have for waterpipe it has written on the side a PSI rating of 450PSI which should be more than enough for my compressor set at 125PSI. Thanks for the advise and help. Tom

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John K

12-28-2003 02:09:14

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I use only copper pipe, on internal rust to blow into tools, easy to install and looks good. Copper pipe has a high pressure rating, way more than the compressor will deliver. The pipe I used was over 1000 psi.

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Larry E

12-27-2003 19:16:32

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I use copper ,type L or M.It will last forever It will not rust.If installed properly,it looks better to.Cost not much more.

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Brown Dirt Cowboy

12-27-2003 15:51:34

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

Thanks guys I have been coming to this site over a year now but this is my first post and I never expected so much responce. I will make a material list of what I need and then start budgeting for it.George, I was unfortanuate enough to have had a shop burn, it is no fun having to pick up stuff that you have sweated for. It was in Jan.1990 They say time heals all things but I am not looking forward to ever doing it again and I would not want to hear about a friend having the same misfortune. Thanks again and like MacArthur "I shall return" Tom

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ShepFL

12-27-2003 13:08:46

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I plan on running black pipe in my shop when I get the money and time to do it.
See link below for other comments on PVC failures.

PVC - don't do it!!

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George

12-27-2003 13:06:29

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I heard of another reason not to use PVC -- if you should be unfortunate enough to have a fire in your shop, a melted PVC air line could provide a great deal of oxygen to feed the flames.

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MT Pockets

12-27-2003 15:34:28

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Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to George, 12-27-2003 13:06:29

George, when PVC is burned it makes phosgene gas.If you breath phosgene gas,you will probably die.It is very toxic.Just another good reason to use iron pipe. MT.

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Cliff Neubauer

12-27-2003 12:40:21

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I did our shop with 1/2" black iron pipe three years ago, only thing I would do different would be to do the main line with 3/4" because now at the end of the 80' run there is a noticable pressure drop. I have a filter just before my hose reel which is 20' down stream of the air compressor letting the air cool so the water will seperate out better. There is no need to spend the extra money for galvanized pipe as it is only galvanized on the outside and not on the inside where it would help prevent rusting. One thing I would suggest doing would be to use T fittings for all your pipe couplings with the extra fitting plugged so if you want to add an extra air line later it will be very easy to do. I did that on a couple of my fittings but not on enough of them, I just added another drop for my plasma cutter and had to disassemble about four peices of pipe to do it.

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Red Tom

12-27-2003 12:05:36

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

Mines in black iron with no problems. Visable filter/moisture traps show now rust or water. My friend paints cars and has used pvc for years. So I don't know.

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JMS/MN

12-27-2003 09:29:33

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I have about a half dozen Milton connections on the air line around the shop, both heated and unheated ares. I connect the compressor hose to the line with a double-ended male connector. In the summer the compressor gets 'plugged' in near the electric service entrance- an out of the way location. In winter I move the compressor into the warm toolroom and plug it in there. Also use the double end to directly fill a portable tank. All hoses and tanks have Milton connectors so they can be used with tools, tire chucks, blow guns, etc. The paint regulator/filter is Miltonized, can go anywhere. And definitely no pvc!

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MT Pockets

12-27-2003 09:28:14

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

Cowboy, As others have said,DO NOT use PVC pipe for any kind of compressed gas. Ultra violet light (sunlight) either direct or indirect, is what makes PVC brittle and weak. It will explode. I have seen it happen. MT.

P.S. There is nothing wrong with using galvanized iron pipe.In fact, i would prefer it even though it costs a little more than black pipe.

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BobCaesar

12-27-2003 08:49:25

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

I think you've got some good ideas here, but please do not use galvinized pipe. Black pipe is the professioinal's choice - 99.99% of the time.

TP Tools has a great web site with detailed diagrams & info on running air lines - all for free. The link to their Tech/Tips page is below (I hope). Their catalog is even better....

TP Tools Tech Tips Pages

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Brown Dirt Cowboy

12-27-2003 07:33:13

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

Thanks men for the input. I hadn't thought of the moisture problem with black pipe. I like Peter B.s idea of the centrally located hose reel, this is a 28x28 shop so nothing will be very far from the reel. I guess the water trap should be located at the reel. Thanks for all help I am going with the reel idea. Tom

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DumOleBob

12-28-2003 07:01:56

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Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-27-2003 07:33:13

Moisture isn't a PROBLEM with black pipe - it's an ADVANTAGE! You want the warned, compressed air to cool rapidly and drop it'w water to run down hill into a water trap or drop. The objecvt is to use dry air!

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cannonball

12-27-2003 07:27:48

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

i used a piece of hyd hose coming off compressor...have nice day may god bless

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Peter B.

12-27-2003 07:07:32

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

DO NOT USE PVC. Air does something to the structure of the PVC, making it brittle. If, and when, and it will, shatter, it will act like a bomb going off.
I have a 2 HP unit with an 80 gallon tank, in the corner of my shop. Ran a 1/2 inch rubber air line hose to the center of the shop, overhead, and attached to a hose real, installed in the ceiling. Can reach anyplace in the shop, and crank it back up, when finished. If I need to run the line outside, for other things, I have two 100 foot lines to use. Keep them rolled up, on a hose hanger, by the door.
Using the 1/2 inch air line hose, as suggested, will allow you the ability to go anyplace in your shop. To keep it from dangling from the ceiling, I ran it through 1 inch PVC, as a carrier. And you can make the hose any length, using repair ends, or have the hose shop cut it to your needed length, and install hose ends.
Just my thoughts.

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Rusty Jones

12-27-2003 07:44:20

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Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Peter B., 12-27-2003 07:07:32

For your supply line from the compressor, you should use steel pipe, run it uphill away from the compressor. This lets water run back down into the air tank! Then connect drop pipes down to waist level, with water drains at the bottom. To accomplish this, tee off the vertical supply lines from the main supply lines, down to a tee, about waist level. install about 1 foot of pipe below the tee, with a 1/4 turn valve at the end. Then a short pipe from the side of the tee, with a female air quick-coupler. A water trap is good to have on the compressor outlet, before the main lines, too. In the summer, it is better to have your air intake to compressor, on the outside of bldg. Warm air hoses lying on a cool floor tend to make water condensation in the air hose. It's good to have some kind of water trap on the supply hose line. Those little orange or white ball filters do a good job at filtering, for paint spraying--just don't use them at over 50 lbs! You'll still have water no matter what you do, but these are some ways to combat it! So, use air tool oil frequently in the tools, but keep it out of your spray guns, for obvious reasons! Also, the Milton line of air fittings is about the best to use, although Snap-on has a good line, too. I've heard bad reports about Harbor Freight and others, they tend to leak soon after starting to use them. Spend a little more now, save more later! RJ

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George

12-27-2003 10:32:26

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Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Rusty Jones, 12-27-2003 07:44:20

Being the short-armed, deep-pocketed type and always looking for a challenge, I have repaired numerous cheap quick connects. First make sure the tip end (perpendicular to the axis of the connector) of the male side is smooth -- this is the sealing surface. Then take apart the female side -- pull back the sliding collar a little, put a pipe wrench on this rim and a box wrench on the other and unscrew. Careful as when you get it apart, a spring and three ball bearings will fall on the floor! Inside you will find a small rubber washer -- the first time you can just turn it over and it will probably work. The second time you need to make a new washer out of a piece of thick innertube.

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12-27-2003 01:52:11

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

run your airlines in galvinized pipe. size it according to the volume of air youll need. since compressors build up water in the tank, the galvinized will last the longest. strap it to studs and joists, and you dont have to worry if someone bumps or hits it. put a small valve at the end of each line, below your air fittings and use it as a drain for the individual line. or you can buy moisture traps for each line. do not use plastic on air lines. it wont take the pressure or the abuse.

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John K

12-26-2003 22:34:17

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

If pvc cracks with a liquid, it will squirt out, with a gas (air) it will splinter in shrapnal. All high pressure cyclinders are tested with water or other approved liquid, no air is to be trapped. If the tank ruptures, very little liquid will escape as liquid (water) can not be compressed thus very little percetage of the volume is released.

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Wayne

12-26-2003 20:12:23

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

PVC and air lines aren't a good mix, DON'T DO IT... Dad made the mistake of trying to make a dryer out of a piece of PVC years ago before he knew better. When he put pressure to it it blew the end off the tube hitting him and nearly knocking him down, as well as breaking the shopwindow with the other part and sending it close to 30 feet. Like I said, PVC and air lines, NOT A GOOD IDEA....

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john

12-26-2003 19:33:35

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Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 19:17:06

Cowboy... to make it short DON'T DO IT !!!

the pressure rating is not for air pressure. PVC isn't rated for air only for liquid. PVC overtime will become brittle and rupture sending dangerous schrapnel in all directions. Here's a link with OSHAs warning about air and pvc.. if you have to run exposed lines use either black pipe or copper.. I know you'll hear lots of folks saying they've used pvc for years and never had a problem... but you have to calculate what your eyes or lift are worth...

BTW there is an excellent piping diagram for shop air on the Tip Tools site

Link

john

link to osha Link

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Brown Dirt Cowboy

12-26-2003 20:46:07

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Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to john, 12-26-2003 19:33:35

Thanks men for the warning and the advice. I had seen it done before but now come to think about it I have never seen it done in a commercial application only in a home-type shop. I will wait until I find a good buy on some black pipe.I do value the info I find on these forums. Thanks. Tom

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Kens640

12-27-2003 06:40:57

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Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Brown Dirt Cowboy, 12-26-2003 20:46:07

Cowboy , you weren't listening . Use galvanized pipe ! Compressed air produces moisture , which needs drained occassionally , & it will cause rust inside black pipe . I don't think you really want to experience the after affects of rusty water in airlines .(not good)Use black pipe for natural gas lines only .

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Van

12-31-2003 09:25:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Kens640, 12-27-2003 06:40:57

Galvanized pipe is only galvanized on the outside, very little gets inside. If you have any old galvanized water pipes, take a look inside- - - its rusty!

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MT Pockets

12-31-2003 12:49:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Van, 12-31-2003 09:25:00

Van, the rust you see inside the pipe is caused by iron in the water. The pipe is coated with zinc inside and out. Thanks. MT.

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BillR

12-27-2003 14:13:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to Kens640, 12-27-2003 06:40:57

I've heard (if I recall correctly, it was on the TP Tools site) that the galvanizing flakes off and gets stuck in tools and fittings. THat's one reason why they suggest black pipe.

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poor tom

12-28-2003 17:48:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to BillR, 12-27-2003 14:13:25

I have old galvanised pipe in my house. It's almost rusted out. Do they galvanise the inside of the pipe?

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MT Pockets

12-28-2003 17:58:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Airlines for shop in reply to poor tom, 12-28-2003 17:48:04

Poor Tom,the inside of the pipe is galvanized just like the outside is. MT.

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