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electric fence shock

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EIL

12-24-2003 07:35:51




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Merry Chirstmas eve everyone!!!!! ! I have one question that I have been wondering ever since I was little, and I figured you fellas would have the answer. About how much voltage is running through an electric fence? And is it enough to kill someone? I know some friends that have been hit pretty good from fences, but I never really held on long enough to test it. I know it's kind of a strange question, but I am in the christmas mood so I can blame it on the egg-nog. I am told that they pulse dc voltage. Anyone ever messed with this sort of stuff? As usual, thanks for the help!!!!! !!

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Roy B

12-27-2003 09:21:00




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Eil
Keep anyone with a pacemaker away from an electric fence, the two make for a dangerous combination. Roy



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Dale

12-26-2003 13:33:40




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Just to sum up advice offered from previous posters - the risk of injury from sources of electrical current is a function of voltage, amperage and frequency. Its true that the current (amperage) is typically more important but that assumes sufficient voltage to overcome the resistence of the body and clothing. A tractor battery can deliver several huncred amps but the voltage is too low to overcome the resistence of the skin. A fencer using capacitive discharge produces a very brief high voltage pulse - sufficient to overcome the resistance of fur and hooves. The amount of current is small and of short duration amd that allows a body to recoil amd break the circuit. Some of the old fencers used lower voltage but a sustained current which had the potential to cause a tetanic contraction in muscles preventing withdrawal. DC current is much less disruptive than AC. As another reply noted, the most effective frequency for disrupting nerve and muscle activity is about 60 hz. AC current at low frequency or very high requency (as in military applications) is much less dangerous.

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Bishop

12-26-2003 06:58:35




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
About 35 years ago while working for Bellsouth in Tennessee, I was wearing a body belt that we wore to climb poles, I needed to cross over an electric farm fence to get to the next pole, I was wearing three layered insulated gloves required to work aloft with so I knew I would not get shocked when I held the electrified wire down and put one leg over the fence. As I fumbled with the six foot strap we also wore that kept us from falling off a pole, my gloves were so thick I could not feel the electrified fence wire slip out of my hand, both of my feet were planted firmly on the moist ground as the wire jump up and stopped tightly in my croutch. I cannot clearly explain the pain comming from from the spot where my two legs are joined together, and I can't remember how many times I jumped up and down trying to get off and get away from that wire.
Over my 54 years I have been electricly shocked by different things in different ways but none was as powerful and intense as crossing that one fence wire.

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Mac

12-26-2003 11:11:58




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Bishop, 12-26-2003 06:58:35  
OUCH!! That hurt me just thinking about it.



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Greywolf

12-26-2003 08:19:43




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Bishop, 12-26-2003 06:58:35  
Too bad a video wasn't caught of that one. You would've been able to win the $100 grand prize on America's home videos.....LOL.



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EIL

12-25-2003 20:48:56




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
I had finally worked up the courage to touch the fence today. I could hear the fence popping, so first I touched the live wire, but I didn't feel anything. So then I grabbed the grounded wire and touched the live wire and still nothing. I stood there 10 minutes before I was brave enough to touch it and come to find out, there was no electricity flowing through it!!!!! !



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scotc

12-29-2003 20:47:10




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-25-2003 20:48:56  
find where the fence is popping, chances are you have a pretty good short there and need to reroute or change an insulator



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Chuck MI

12-26-2003 06:10:03




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-25-2003 20:48:56  
I have a couple of funny stories to relate:

When I was 7 or 8 years old I was at my cousins farm and they had a wire fence around their barnyard. I asked him if it was on and he said yes. I didn't believe him and he proceded to pinch it between his fingers. Mind you he was about 16 or so years old. So I still don't believe him, so I grap it in my hand. I'm sanding in grass wet from the dew and the shock causes me to grip harder on the wire. It took me a few seconds to force my self to let go. My brother and cousin had a good laugh. I don't know what the volt or amp on this charger was but I know it was pulse.

Then, a couple of years ago i thought that my garden fence wasn't working right as I could touch it and hardly felt anything, so I walk back to where the charger lead ran to the fence wire and started to fiddle with it thinking the connection wasn't good. I doing so I touch the metal fence post and the wire at the same time. Cleared up any doubt that the fence was functioning. This time was on dry ground with a small, non pulse charger.

On a note of strength. My buddy works as a keeper at Disney's Zoo. They have some electric wires a couple inches off the ground that keep the rhinos in but allow the buses to drive into the pens. Don't remember the exact strength.

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RayP(MI)

12-25-2003 18:35:54




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Some of the oldtimers used to hook the hot side of the 110v through a lightbulb directly to the fence. (series wired) NOW THAT'S DANGEROUS! We used to use "Shock-stock" brand fencers which were nothing more than a high voltage transformers. Remember one morning when my dad found an owl caught between the hot and grounded wires on the electric fence. Took the owl several days of recuperation in the corn crib before it was able to go free. Highly recommend the newer pulsed units. At least there's a pause between bursts, allowing victims the chance to let go. We used to use a long piece of grass to test the fence. Start out a long distance away from the fence and slide the grass up on the fence until you feel the first tingle - then quit! Have seen cows test the fence the same way with their nose whiskers! Had one cow who really had it figured out. She'd wait until another wandered too close to fence - then she'd but the hapless cow into the fence - getting a shock, and probably breaking fence, allowing her into next field!

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Mac

12-25-2003 18:57:26




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to RayP(MI), 12-25-2003 18:35:54  
Ray: I saw an example of that type shocker years ago. Guy had one around a garden, a small 3-4 year old girl got hold of it, of course she wet and made it worse. She was fortunate. He was stubborn and left it up till his nice irish setter got hold of it and it did him in. THEN he took the fence down.



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Mac

12-25-2003 18:56:27




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to RayP(MI), 12-25-2003 18:35:54  
Ray: I saw an example of that type shocker years ago. Guy had one around a garden, a small 3-4 year old girl got hold of it, of course she wet and made it worse. He was stubborn and left it up till his nice irish setter got hold of it and it did him in. THEN he took the fence down.



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Dell (WA)

12-25-2003 08:50:48




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
EIL..... ....as others have said, its the AMPS that'll do you in. The human body is most sensitive to about 400 volts AC and about 60 cycles. Well guess what the power company strings down to your house? Guess what kills more humans and why?

Back in the '50s, I built a "Tessla Coil", it operated at about 2000 cycles and 50,000 volts and I could draw a blue spark about 3" long off the top of the coil tower. Impressive and didn't hurt 'toll.

Try drawing a spark off'n yer ignition coil, thats about 15000 volts of 1/4" blue jumpin' sparkie, knock ya on yer butt, eh?

Ever get bitt from walkin' 'cross the carpet, thats about 5000 volts.

Them thar "New Zealand" electric fence chargers will pulse about 7000 volts and they really hurt.

The ol'weedburner RedDevil buzzbox put out about 1000 volts and they hurt too.

Most livestock can actually sense the electricity pulsing thru the wire by their nose whiskers and don't haffta touch the wire to know.

Lotta dairy milkin' parlors even string a hotwire across the backs of their cows so when they hump to pizz they gitt bitt and learn not too dirty up their home while they're gittin their teats pulsed. Infact, thats a real milkin' parlor problem, stray volts from bad electrial grounds, turns them titts right off.

Used to have this pig that we couldn't keep penned, put up an electric fence wire, it got bitt, but it learned that if'n he gotta runnin' start, he'd bust thru that wire. So here he'd come runnin' 'cross the pen, justa squealin', 'cuz he knew that he was gonna gitt bitt, and bust thru the wire to get to the other pen. Mighty fine eatin'. (electro-shock tenderized?)..... ...Dell

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Bishop

12-26-2003 16:18:42




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Dell (WA), 12-25-2003 08:50:48  
Dell, The second worst shock I ever had came off the coil of my '72 Pontiac, I don't remember how I touch it but I can describe how it felt.
Imagine yourself bending over the hood of your car and someone comes up from behind you and hits you as hard as he can on the back of your neck with a 2X4. The shock came up my right arm and stopped at the base of my skull. I saw stars and I was sore there for three weeks. That was the second worst shock.

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James Ayars

12-25-2003 10:05:06




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Dell (WA), 12-25-2003 08:50:48  
One of the demos I do for my students each year is to shock myself with a Tesla coil. It generates about 50,000 volts but the current is very low. It will set paper on fire though if I hold a sheet between the coil tip and a piece of metal.

The worst shock I ever got was from touching the spark plug on a running lawn mower.



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Jim in michigan

12-25-2003 06:21:47




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Mine registers 5750 volts on the tester, but you have to remember its the amps that get you , not the volts,,mine stings like a dickens, but it hasnt killed me, and I have bumped into it a time or two,,I do use signs on it though to keep people from walking into it,,,Jim



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doug vose

12-25-2003 05:28:42




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
I was running hiefers one morning, and it was really soppy and muddy from the rain. Well, there is an overhead wire that runs over the gate that isnt quite high enough, and as i was pushin the last hiefer in, it hit the little metal ball on my baseball cap, the shock went through my head, and down my right leg. It knocked me out for a few minutes. I can remember right as it hit me, everything went dark, and therre was a little green line that i was seeing.

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Slowpoke

12-25-2003 17:00:11




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to doug vose, 12-25-2003 05:28:42  
Your lucky it didn't go down the left leg. You have surely raised the wire by now.



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Ragged Rick

12-25-2003 04:43:05




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
I had one a few years ago that hit pretty hard but one night while climbing across the top of the pipe pen I touched the fence wire with my shoulder while still on the fence. My heart beat
wierd for about 45 minutes. I moved the wire higher then.



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Paul Shuler

12-24-2003 17:24:04




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
I have a good buddy that grew up in North Dakato and just playing around as a kid one day rigged up a magneto from a modle A Ford to a small wind mill and hooked it up to the fence. He said it started some tree limbs on fire and his dad made him take it down.



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Glen in TX

12-24-2003 11:56:04




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Just be careful using a older style fencer or one that someone modified. Those old weed chopper style fencers that have been modified are unsafe and will paralyze or kill a animal that gets caught underneath and can set fire to dry weeds or put too close to a hay stack. The newer pulse style are a bit safer in these regards but can be dangerous too when defective.



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DH in Carolina

12-24-2003 17:15:49




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Glen in TX, 12-24-2003 11:56:04  
Sad but true. I remember about 1960 of a 8 or 9 year old girl being electrocuted after chasing a ball into a creek and getting into a electric fence that her father had. I don't know what kind it was. They lived about a mile from us.



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Mac

12-24-2003 10:32:10




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
I used to hunt a lot of groundhods for a guy. Went out one hot day, sweating like I had just showered. He never said nothing about an elec fence. I didnt look. MISTAKE.. Was gonna use a fence post for a rest, when I layed my armpit on the wire, it knocked me down the ditch, gun went off
and ground hog escaped and I thought I had P***** all over myself. Only thing that almost killed me was the fall down the ditch. Its funny now, but not then.

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Bus Driver

12-24-2003 10:19:22




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Most of the fence testers that do indicate voltage have the highest indicator light marked 5000 volts. Voltage much less may not be effective on animals with heavy fur. I backed into a 5K fence and the spot hurt so much that I checked to see if I was bleeding. The low amperage and the pulsing will likely protect most people from harm. One fellow told me he had a pacemaker and the fence would ruin it- not sure, but best to be cautious. My fence did kill a terrapin that crawled under and touched the bottom wire.

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Nolan

12-24-2003 08:44:53




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
Voltage doesn't kill, amperage does.

All the pulse types are safe. However, the constant current type can kill. I don't think any are strong enough to kill an adult human. However, a small child is a different matter. I have seen dead geese, squirrels and such in one. I used to use one until I wised up to the dangers. They are also a fire hazard.

That said, fence chargers vary widely. As low as just a few hundred volts, upwards to 30k. Depends on the size and price.

How hard do they hit? I've been zapped by a number of them. They all would make my hands and wrist ache. Some would make my elbow ache. A very few would make my shoulder ache.

If I had to make a generic power comment on who's gives the hardest blast, I'd hand it to Parmak. My arm is starting to ache just thinking about them. :-)

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Vern

12-24-2003 19:22:01




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Nolan, 12-24-2003 08:44:53  
Nolan & KX;

I worked with Magnaflux for 30 years. We used up to 6000A with about 6V. Never was shocked once. It must be a combination of Volts & Amps that make it bad.

Vern



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KX

12-24-2003 10:15:55




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Nolan, 12-24-2003 08:44:53  
Agree, amps are what kill. As a telephone man, they always told us that under the right conditions, a very very small amount of amps (fractions) can kill. I have seen guys try to hold onto ring voltage which is 120 V AC but at .0123 amps for fun. Ive been hit by it many many times but it just gets your attention fast. Now if you were standing in water barefooted....it may not be too funny.



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Terry

12-24-2003 07:48:05




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 Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 07:35:51  
I have a solar electric fence box around a pen (and around my garden in the summer to keep the deer out). If I grab and hold it solid I can barely feel any power (just touching it make me jump, though!). Not sure why this is. It is useful however to hold the fence and touch my 13 year old on the arm -- she jumps, then wheels around and hits me good, but I'm laughing so hard it doesn't matter!

Might be different with another box or other conditions -- but so far I'm alive!

Terry

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henrich in Iowa

12-24-2003 13:39:21




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Terry, 12-24-2003 07:48:05  
Those solar fencers do have a battery in them and they do wear out over time. They are not cheap to replace.



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dumolebob

12-24-2003 08:15:50




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 Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to Terry, 12-24-2003 07:48:05  
To test an electric fence you need to grab the wire and put your other hand down on the ground (wet ground is better). In other words GROUND the circuit. If the thing is working your teeth will jump up behind your eyeballs! It won't kill you, but you'll never do it again!

Anyone with non-conductive shoes (rubber) on can touch the fence and feel very little. Most animals don't wear rubber sole shoes...

Same thing with a guy urinating on an electric fence. Just get him to do it bare footed!

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scotc

12-29-2003 20:57:01




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 Re: Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to dumolebob, 12-24-2003 08:15:50  
another trick- use a good rubber or wood handled screwdriver, set it against a metal post and swing the end near the wire, if the ground's good it'll arc and make a big snap



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EIL

12-24-2003 08:23:16




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 Re: Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to dumolebob, 12-24-2003 08:15:50  
I have tried holding onto the grounded wire and touching the live wire and it spooked me, but what would happen if I hold on to both?



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kyhayman

12-24-2003 14:58:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 08:23:16  
Knock your ---- in the dirt if it's working. :-)

One trick I learned (from a kid who worked for me and his dad had used him as the fence tester) is to take a blade of green grass and hold it to the fence. It buffers the current enough that you can tell it's working but fairly painless.



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john

12-24-2003 08:25:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to EIL, 12-24-2003 08:23:16  
try it you will not do it again LOL
will not kill you as it pulses so you can let go but a good charger will bring you to your knees if you try to hold on.....



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bob

12-24-2003 09:49:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to john, 12-24-2003 08:25:33  
don,t let the preachers know that john



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vince

12-28-2003 06:14:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: electric fence shock in reply to bob, 12-24-2003 09:49:46  
Skin on most people will insulate between 7-13volts That is why magnaflux and cheep welders dont kill a lot of folks.



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