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Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod started.

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Scott

12-17-2003 08:34:48

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I just received my new stick welder for x-mas last night. Its a little guy, 100amp with a 10% cycle. I got the first 3 rods started fine and had a ball zapping and melting metal(for about 15 minutes) but when I used a fresh box of different rods (7 thousand sumthin'type) all I can do now is get stuck to the metal. The rod sparks, and sticks. Ive tapped, scraped, danced and cleaned, but all the stick does is pop and stick in place. Now, could I have possibly fried my new toy during my first 15 minutes of non stop molten metal mayhem, or would the machine have shut down like a circut breaker first? PLEASE help me, Im getting really frustrated.

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Dieselrider

12-17-2003 19:21:00

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Scott, The rods that came with the machine were probably 7014 or 6013 rods or even 6011, all will work well with ac welders. If you are using 7018 rods with an ac welder you have to be very talented to get them to weld without pulling your hair out. Some rods are for ac welding and some are not and some don't care what they are used with. It's the way they are made. If you have 7018 rods keep them for cast iron, they will weld that very well with ac current. I have done it with them and they do work for that but, if you try to weld a second layer over the first with them using ac forget it you'll be right back to the sticking. Get some 6011 or 6013 or 7014 rod for you welder and have fun.

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welder for livin

12-17-2003 17:48:03

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

you have to ac rod like 6011 7014 no thicker than
5/32with that little machine

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Nick

12-17-2003 15:49:42

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

If you are going to go the wire welder route, dont forget to use flux-core wire if you are welding outdoors or on fairly dirty steel. Shielding gas kits are a plus as well

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Old Peddler

12-17-2003 13:36:50

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Look for 1/16 6013 or 5/64 6013 welding rods. That size will work in your welding machine. Most welding supply places carry them in stock. Walmart and Lowes should have them too.

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Leroy

12-17-2003 17:41:45

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Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod in reply to Old Peddler, 12-17-2003 13:36:50

I was going to sujust those 5/64 rods, that Is the size I need for my 70 amp 110 volt 50 year old Speigel welder

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Old Peddler

12-17-2003 18:36:55

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Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding in reply to Leroy, 12-17-2003 17:41:45

I think there were some 1/16 Stainless electrodes that you could buy a few years ago. They came in a five pound can but it has been a long time since I have seen any.

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Ben in KY

12-17-2003 12:21:58

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Scott,
Just one thought from me. I read thru the replies to your question and apoligise to any posters who might have already posted this. Never use an extension cord to power the welder. It will cause a substantial voltage drop and cause damage to the welder and cause it to perform poorly. If you have to use an extension core make sure it is at least 12 GA and short in length.

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Mac

12-17-2003 12:16:15

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Maybe bad rod, but I think a 3/32 is gonna be about all that it will handle. Years ago had a lincoln 100 amp welder, 99 bucks new in box, it did a good job, but it was wired for 220.

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Chris Brown

12-17-2003 11:11:40

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

I don't meat to cast any insults here,but you've got a cheap welder thats going to be an expensive toy.That meaning you're going to need expensive rods to weld easily. Goto super walmart and buy those little tiny welding rods they have back by the welders and your welder will work fine. campbell hausfield I believe. Some welding supply's have a 1/16 th" rod called "easy strike" Those will be the best .

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12-17-2003 10:58:56

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Welders are like everything else - You get what you pay for. A 110v - 100amp welder w/10% duty cycle from Harbor Freight ain't exactly professional grade. That being said you can do a lot of (light) welding with it if you use the right rods and realize its limitations.

1/8" rods are going to be the biggest you are going to be able to use and most things you will use even smaller. Like somebody already said 6011's and 6013's are good all purpose rods that are easy to use.

Personally if I were going to buy a "lower end" (cheap) welder I would much rather have a stick rod type (like you already have) than a wire feed. A good wire feed will cost you many more $$$$ but a cheap one is useless IMHO.

Get you some new 6011's and hang in there.

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Scott

12-17-2003 11:13:48

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Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod in reply to JT, 12-17-2003 10:58:56

Well, it seems like the general consensus is that my rods are bad. But, I was going to trade up for a cheap wire feeder until I saw your post. What kind if problems will I experience with a cheap wire feed that I wont with a cheap stick fed model?

Honestly, the welder is only going to be used for light gunsmithing, home repair and maybe building a tree stand....

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Brad in VA

12-17-2003 16:02:12

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Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 11:13:48

Tree stand???? I hope you get very comfortablewith welding before you try that. I dont feel real comfortable in a tree stand made by a reputable manufacturer. I trust my welding but there are alot of physics involved in building a tree stand like the angles have to be cut at the right angles to cut the tree to hold. Also if it isnt made from aluminum or and very very light weight steel you will were your self out carrying it into the woods and dragging it up the tree. My 2 cents

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12-17-2003 17:20:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get weld in reply to Brad in VA, 12-17-2003 16:02:12

Brad, well put all I have to say is GOD bless him.

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Scott D

12-18-2003 05:37:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get in reply to RT, 12-17-2003 17:20:49

Maybe I should have said MODIFYING a tree stand, like adding a bow hanger or shooting rest....ooops.

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hay

12-17-2003 10:13:18

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

some rods seem to be that way. just stick and never burn right. the easiest rod to use on ac is 6011 or 6013. like striking a match, just drag it lightly until it starts to arc and burn. take practice, practice and more practice. also the 7014 is easy to use once you get the hang of starting it. if the machine is letting the rod arc, then chances are it is still ok. try some 6011 in a small size like 1/16" at about 60 amps or a 3/32" at about 80-90 amps. make sure the metal is clean and grease free. it helps a lot. also make sure you have a good ground. that is one cause of sputtering that i know of.

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George

12-17-2003 09:48:21

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Borrow some different rods and try them. I bought a box of rods from a welding supplier and those suckers sounds like the ones you have -- they would not strike and if they did, were hard to keep going. I even baked them in case moisture was a problem. Went out and bought new rods from a different supplier and have had no problems. (I have 3/4 box of 3/32 rods I will sell real cheap.)

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AD Trailer

12-17-2003 08:58:27

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Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod star in reply to Scott, 12-17-2003 08:34:48

Scott, Congratulations on the new welder. The smallest welder I've used before is a 100 amp (120 volt outlet) machine, and that was about 12 years ago, so they might have changed a little since then. The problem I ran into was that the welder could not handle the larger diameter rods. I think you mentioned using 7,XXX series rods the times it would not work. You might get better advice from others on this forum, but my two cents is that you need to go to a welding supply store and ask what size rods will work with your new machine. I am guessing a 5/32" rod will do. Good luck!

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Scott D

12-17-2003 09:30:46

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Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding rod in reply to AD Trailer, 12-17-2003 08:58:27

If I remember correctly, the 7xxx series I was using is 3/16 in diameter. But like I said, the first 3 rods went off without a hitch (came with the welder) and the new box just wont start. Pop, buzz, pop, buzz, stuck to the metal each and every time. Turn up the amps, turn down the amps, clean the meatal, pop buzz, pop buzz....I cant get it started. Is there a chance I fried the unit? Is there some kind if safety that shuts it down before if burns up ? (Chicago Electric 100 amp welder from Harbor freight)
I might just return it and spend the extra 40 bucks on a wire feed, Im told they are easier to use. Whaddya think?

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D.L.

12-17-2003 18:27:06

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Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding in reply to Scott D, 12-17-2003 09:30:46

3/16" is WAAAAY too heavy of rod for that machine!! I took a welding class at our local college a few years ago and the rule of thumb they taught is to set your machine @ 1 amp for each .001" of welding rod wire size... 3/32" rod equates to .093" (93 thousanths) so a good starting point to set your welder to burn that rod is 95-100 amps. The 3/16" rod you're trying is twice too thick for your machine's amperage... it measures .187" (one hundred eighty-seven thousanths)... to successfully burn rod that heavy you'd need nearly 200 amps!!! I used a "buzz box" for several years... they're good for light duty stuff... just don't get carried away with the rod size AND be mindful of the duty cycle... a 10% duty cycle means you can weld for 1 minute out of any given 10 minute period. Any more than that & you risk FRYING the transformer in the machine. If you want to step up to a better machine (as I eventually did) look at wire feed (MIG) machines in the 200+ amp range. They'll weld just about anything you want to weld, with no slag, less mess, and less distortion. I ended up buying a Thermal Arc (made by Thermadyne Corp) 250 amp machine...with the lower amperages (maybe less than 180, it has a 100% duty cycle...wide open it still has 60%) ... cost around $1400. ...but, in a couple of years, I've run 500 pounds of wire through it!!! Before that machine, I bought a 110v MIG, tried it on some body work... what a mess! Fortunately, I sold it for what I had in it then bought the new machine. I'd have to agree with some of the other posts... you get what you pay for!!!

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RZ(Wa)

12-17-2003 10:49:18

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Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding in reply to Scott D, 12-17-2003 09:30:46

Since all is clean and shiny, I'd be inclined to use a smaller diameter rod ( as the others have suggested).
I have both a stick and a wire feed. I hardly ever use the stick any more. In fact I could get rid of it for all it's been used over the past two years. The wire feed is much easier for me to use in tight spaces and on sheetmetal and is so much more portable for use around the place (I load the welder and generator onto a 3-pt mounted platform that I made and off I go, happy as a clam in heat).
As a POI - a wire feed will also stick to what is being welded, but not near as solid or as often as a rod will, just have a pair of side cutters handy, keep a good 'ground' and practice, practice, practice.

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AD Trailer

12-17-2003 10:30:10

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Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding in reply to Scott D, 12-17-2003 09:30:46

Scott, I am not that familiar with the Chicago Electric brand welders. Surely it must be the rods????? Like others suggested, you might try borrowing a few different ones to see what works best, in your case, the smaller diameter rod the better.

Back to the welder, a 10% duty cycle is not that great, but I would doubt that in 15 minutes you would burn it up. I would assume that if you overloaded it, it would hopefully have some sort of overload protection, that could be replaced or reset. If this took place, the welder should have shut off completely. My advice again, try different rods.

You mentioned that there was wire-feed model for 40 dollars more; yes in a lot of cases a wire feed welder, whether its flux coated wire or plain using it with gas (MIG), is easier to use, but it depends on what type of welding you will be doing.

Let us know what you figure out...

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markct

12-17-2003 10:24:08

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Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get welding in reply to Scott D, 12-17-2003 09:30:46

3/16 is way too big for a 100 amp welder, when i weld with 3/16 i ususaly use 180 to 220 amps, depending on the material and other conditions, with 100 amps even 1/8 rod is a stretch, better stick with 3/32 for most stuff

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Catkill Pete

12-17-2003 14:12:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Please help a newbie/cant get weld in reply to markct, 12-17-2003 10:24:08

I,m going to vote with the other posts, pick up some smaller diameter 6011 or 6013 rods. If its one of the cheaper machines its AC, 7xxx rod can be very difficult to start even with a much bigger AC machine. I use the 7000 series often with a lincoln 220 "buzz box" but if I'm trying to tack 2 pieces together I always "spot weld" the parts together with 6013 first, because it can be very tricky starting the 7018.

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