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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

How do you sharpen a file?

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Caseworker

12-15-2003 15:39:02




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How do you sharpen dull hand files? I asked an older machinist, and was told to put them in a diluted sulphuric acid bath until the grooves were etched deeper. Has anyone tried this method? I've got some big old files that I would like to bring back to life.




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Kelvin

12-16-2003 19:04:10




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
One thing not mentioned: My machine shop teacher told me he used to save files other guys threw away by taking a piece of mild steel pointed at the end and use the point to peck at the metal embedded in the teeth. I've tried it on the files I have and it does seem to work.
Also, I have taken a motorized wire brush to files that were used to shape aluminum, with good results.



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jake

12-17-2003 07:38:30




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 Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Kelvin, 12-16-2003 19:04:10  
Aluminum can be removed by soaking in a lye solution. Don't make it too strong or it will act like Draino w/aluminum.



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Joe Evans

12-16-2003 05:54:01




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
Never have heard of sharpening files, and as with previous posts, I would think acid would degrade the cutting edges as well as the material in the gullets or valleys.

I have been able to restore some of the cutting ability in old files by giving them a good soaking with WD-40 and working them over with a card file.

I have many old files that still cut very well. I make it a point to card them out after using and them spray them down with WD-40. The WD goes a long way to prevent rust and keeps the filings from piling up in the gullets which degrades cutting ability. Also during a filing job, I sometimes will spray the file just to keep the filings from sticking.

Many files are messed up by back-dragging them across the work. Most files work in one direction--cut,lift...cut,lift.

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kenny

12-16-2003 10:30:53




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 Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Joe Evans, 12-16-2003 05:54:01  
AMEN! never drag a file backwards. As for the "acid" sharpning..I don't beleive it. Common sence says that acid (or rust) will eat the sharp, narrow edge more than the sides where you want it too. If they get good results, it was probably because the file needed a good cleaning.



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John Ne.

12-16-2003 10:46:16




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 Re: Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to kenny, 12-16-2003 10:30:53  
An acid bath is recommended for resharpening files in two very old blacksmithing books I own. Back then it didn't get printed if it weren't true. Also heard of immersing them in battery acid in a glass dish, check in 20 minutes, rinse thoroughly.



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Ludwig

12-19-2003 13:28:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to John Ne., 12-16-2003 10:46:16  
Oops, should have been lies....



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Ludwig

12-19-2003 13:28:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to John Ne., 12-16-2003 10:46:16  
"Back then it didn't get printed if it weren't true" Phhhhfffftttt
Yeah right. Like theres ever been a time when the press wasn't used to spread lines and/or misinformation...



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wayne

12-16-2003 11:22:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to John Ne., 12-16-2003 10:46:16  
Hi there; as a beginning shop teacher 30+ years ago, I acid dipped my body files. They were a little better afterwards but I replaced them with new as soon as the budget allowed. Also, re Oliver oc3; I've had mine here on Vancouver Island
for 20 years. Does anyone know if the final drive sprocket is for sure cast steel? Thanks for any help available



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SamH

12-16-2003 05:29:38




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
I'm the old toolmaker some of you have been talking about. Not really, it just feels that way some mornings. Seriously, I have learned better than to say something can't be done, but there are things that are not very practical. Sharpening files is an example of that. I have been in the toolmaker/machinist trade in various capacities since the mid 60's and have worked for small job shops and major corporations. I too, have met the "old toolmaker" who claimed that he used to resharpen files with acid, but in all those years, I have never seen anybody actually try it. It would take way too much time and at best would be hit or miss, and there is also the problem of buying and properly handling sulphuric acid. When our files wore out, we just bought new ones. Cardfiles work well to clean between the teeth if the material isn't inbedded too tightly, but it doesn't do any sharpening.

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Nolan

12-16-2003 03:45:31




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
I've tried the acid method, got mediocre results. Acid would remove metal from the cutting tips just as readily as it would from the valleys.



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chris-se-ILL

12-15-2003 22:27:08




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
Well if it was me I would replace them...

HOWEVER, you can anneal the old file (take the temper out of it) by bringing it to a dull cherry red (just till you see a deep, dark, even red tint in the metal). When it reaches the dull red color place the file in a bucket of dry wood ash (completely covered with 3 or more inches of the ashes). Leave the file in the ashes for about 2 to 4 hours and let it cool slowly.

After you remove the file from the ashes, the metal will not have the hard temper in it, and you will be able to work the metal (form it, shape it, whatever. This is also a way to prepare old files for making knives). If you wish to cut or freshen the cutting teeth of the file, you must lay the file on a bar of lead or wooden block and use a hammer and sharp cold chisel that is wide enough to shape the teeth the full width of the file. If you are forming a knife blade or tool you can heat the steel for forging, but do not heat it more than a dull cherry red color. Do not work the steel (other than forming small teeth for a file) while the steel is cool. Pounding with a hammer will pack the fibres of the cold metal and will lead to breaking or splitting of the steel.

After re-forming the teeth to the desired shape. You will have to re-harden the file. Again bring the heat of the forge or rosebud tipped torch along the file till it causes an even deep red tint in the steel file (I know that many folks advocate a "straw color" for tempering, but I like the dark cherry-red color for tempering). Do not heat to the "bright" red color (at that temp you start to burn off the carbon in the steel). When you can just make out the deep red tint of the steel, thrust the file into a bucket of salt water (point first) and swish it around in a "figure-eight" pattern till it is totally cooled.

At this point the file is very brittle and may break in usage, if not "relieved" of the stresses in the steel. I usually bring the steel to a slight temp (some folks like to place the steel in an oven at about 250+ degrees for 20 minutes). But,I usually use a torch and just pass the flames over the steel, with the torch tip at a slight distance from the steel, only till it is too hot to touch without a thick glove (yea, I know that is not precise). Then I let the file cool back down slowly.

I have used this same process to make my own coil springs from teeth on a combine reel, and to form knife blades, from files and thin leaf springs. A little playing around trying this and you catch on quick to what works best.

Again as I said at the beginning, it is cheaper to just buy a new file {or chemically treat them}. But I like to play with metal and try new things so this is just another little skill that is handy to know and practice. It ain't precise like some folks like to be.... but it does work well!

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Rusty Jones

12-15-2003 20:00:25




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
The old time machinist was correct! But, times change, folks get paid more money, the old ways are forgotten, you just go out and buy new files--it's planned obsolescence--out with the old--in with the new! I have tools that i bought 40 years ago that still function, although the ratchets tend to wear out after a while! Back then, we always had a bucket of gasoline setting nearby, and when we cleaned the tools up, into the gas they went, which lubed the works in the ratchets, and they lasted longer. Auto body workers tend to overlook the oiling step, so theirs don't last as long as a mechanics tools.

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Ray,IN

12-15-2003 19:57:24




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
The old toolmaker I apprenticed under told me this works. Pour about 2" vinegar into a glass gallon jug. Throughly degrease the file. Suspend the dull file from the top (not touching the liquid), cover jug top to reduce evaporation, sit back for about 2-3 weeks. You'll find the file all fuzzy with corrosion. Bruch off with a file card or standard wire brush so you may inspect the teeth. If the teeth appear sharp you were successful. If the teeth are not sharp redo. The theory behind this is: the vinegar(neutralized acetic acid)eats away the metal, and since the teeth are thinner closer to the cutting edge eventually the tooth regains a sharp edge. I see no reason why some other acid shouldn't work also.

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Mac

12-15-2003 19:02:26




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
A new one to me. We used to use a lot of files, and only used a file cord or card on them to clean. Make decent knives if you are handy.



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Scott Green

12-15-2003 18:56:57




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
It seems to me that files are cut , not sharpened. I may be wrong about this. Lets hear from some others. Other than cleaning them , when they are dull , throw them away. Or , you can turn them into something else.



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AZ Jack

12-15-2003 18:19:00




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
If you have a good hardware store see if they have a file card. It will brush the grooves out-which is usually the problem-the grooves get so filled that it won't cut anymore. If this doesn't help, then it is time for a new file.



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Russel

12-15-2003 18:15:00




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
Buy new ones. If they are big enough the old ones will make good corn knives.



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iceman

12-15-2003 15:50:55




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 Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to Caseworker, 12-15-2003 15:39:02  
thats what my dad told me
makes sense.never tried it



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jake

12-15-2003 19:38:31




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 Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to iceman, 12-15-2003 15:50:55  
Most files are abused causing failure. A gunsmiths method of preserving files is prior to use take a chalk stick and rub against the file grain. The file can be cleaned by a tap on a hard surface, the teeth cannot load up due to chalk preventing metal from filling the teeth. I have some that are 15 yrs old and good as ever by this. Chalk should reapplied after each tap. Also draw filing gives a smoother and better cut.

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Davis In SC

12-16-2003 09:20:16




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 Re: Re: Re: How do you sharpen a file? in reply to jake, 12-15-2003 19:38:31  
I agree with Jake, chalk is best way to keep file from loading up.Oils seem to made file skate over work instead of cutting. My Dad said that in Air Force Machinist school, instructor forbid them to even touch file teeth, to avoid getting oil on them. On subject of sharpening, there is (was) a company in Xenia, OH that sharpens file, claim they are sharper than new.I think they use the acid method.

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