Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum

While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
David R

07-29-2000 14:25:54




Report to Moderator

What process would you use to repair a high pessure hydraulic hard line(steel tube) that has a crack or a hole worn into it and also how to reconnect/replace the adapter that has fallen off the end (broken weld). I have seen guys use a welder (both wire and stick) and also braze them. All processes have failed and sometimes worked. I guess some tubing flex's alot in use along with alot of vibration, making it a difficult repair on thin highly-stressed steel.

Thank you for answers.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Dave R Thanks...More?

07-31-2000 05:52:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
Thanks to all for the good advice, It seems all of it applies for certain situations I see. I don't have a TIG so that's out.
Some times I have replaced lines, but with some of the equipment I work on 3-6 hundred $ each, lots of tight bends, and a wait for it. Of course if someone's having to use a machine and it breaks, usually they gotta have it yesterday, because they usually waited till it had to be done. Go figure. I have two more questions if you have time. 1. Would it be helpful to pre/post heat (a little) the line when using a high strength (or any) filler metal? 2. How does UTS compare between silver solder, say compared to the Ni/Bronze/528fc, oh, and 3, how is the toughness and bond strenght likely to compare on the end adapter if the prior silvery(?) colored bond metal isn't completely removed from the fitting?

Thank you!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Steve U.S. Alloys

07-31-2000 07:15:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to Dave R Thanks...More?, 07-31-2000 05:52:01  
Hi Dave,
You have asked some very pertinent questions.

First of all, before you consider ordering something from U.S. Alloys, I would like to have a phone conversation with you so I can ask some questions about your application. I like to get all the facts first. Send me an e-mail if that's the way you wish to proceed.

In regard to your first question, a preheat is most likely not required. If you make this repair with an oxy/fuel torch, preheat is a given.

In regard to your second question, it depends on the type of silver we are talking about. Many so called silver solders actually contain no silver at all. A true silver solder ( such as my #1210fc) is up to 56% percent silver with a bond temp that would define the alloy as a brazing rod and with a tensile strength of 85,000 PSI. For example, you can immediately notice the difference between a 40% alloy and a 56% alloy when in use.

The biggest question you have raised has to do with the existing deposit on the lines. If it has been soldered as an OEM part, the easiest way to effect the repair will be with a compatible material. A high content silver alloy may not be what was used. Also, a high content silver alloy would be unsuitable for repairing holes because it flows so thin that it would be impossible to keep it out of the line. That particular alloy will even flow straight up! Steve

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Leger

07-30-2000 19:41:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
Do not use TIG unless you can get into the pipe to clean up,you do not want trash of this kind in a hyd sys. Try silver solder, it is easyier to use and not likely to put trash into the system.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Steve U.S. Alloys

07-30-2000 10:04:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
I have to agree with Clickent in regard to TIG being the ideal process for this repair.

If you don't have one, there is also a high strength, thin flow Ni/Bronze alloy ( U.S. Alloy 528fc with 100,000PSI tensile) that will allow successful brazing of such a joint. It would also be suitable for repairing the hole that rubbed thru. Be careful that the alloy doesn't sag into the line. Steve



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
bbott

07-30-2000 08:50:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
I've seen them epoxied too... read on for another suggestion....

Is this on a backhoe cylinder or such ?

I think they were steel tubing just to reduce the likelyhood of damage when 'down in the hole'.

I replaced mine with a simple piece of high-strength hose and conventional fittings. Then 'armored' the area with a half-round of pipe strapped to the cylinder.

Better protected than original (which had been welded and epoxied many times), works fine and it's lots easier to fix if it does get clobbered again.

Best of luck..

bbott...

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jimmyzz

07-29-2000 21:58:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
I almost always braze them and haven't ever had a failure.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fred OH

07-31-2000 06:37:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to jimmyzz, 07-29-2000 21:58:57  
I'll bet Jimmyzz is a thinking welder. He knows that brazing is a mechanical bond and he knows that cleanliness is next to godliness when preparing for a weld so he takes that line off and brightens it down to bare metal all around it. Then he probably flows braze all around the crack or hole, tinning it good, because he knows it's a mechanical bond and not a fusion weld and it needs to flow into the surface so that it holds good. I'll bet he then knows that if you braze metal that is 100,000# tensile strength with a rod that is only 50,000# tensile strength and the wall thickness of the tubing is only .045" thick, he will build his braze up to about three times the wall thickness of the tubing to compensate for the differences in tensile strength of the two materials. Yes sir, I'll bet Jimmyzz is a thinking welder. I'll bet he don't have a tube of JB Weld in his toolbox either. I'll also bet he never has a failure. Did you novice welders and welders that haven't repaired hydraulic lines learn anything from this reply? If you have more questions, see Jimmyzz cause I don't know a thing about it.
L8R----Fred

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave R

08-02-2000 18:33:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to Fred OH, 07-31-2000 06:37:01  
Thanks Fred. I haven't had much practice brazing to be a novice yet. I guess if I spent more time thinking about brazing instead of trying to get it over with, I'd be better off sometimes. I do have trouble building up a smooth layer of brass, have to practice some more. You say you don't know a thing about it, at least you've been paying attention to guys who do.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Greg

07-29-2000 21:43:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
They make an ox/acc rod in high and low strenght, the high strenght is what is needed. Don't recall at this moment the manafacture, but its black in color. Brazing won't work on hyd. lines after they get hot a time or too it'll break, and on high pressure the fluid can fog thru the brass enough to penatrate the skin.

HTH



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G.

08-01-2000 00:29:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to Greg, 07-29-2000 21:43:06  
WELCO W-1200: A high strength, bright finish, steel welding rod which will respond to heat treatment, flame harding and cyaniding. Its is widely used for the welding of carbon steel pipes in power plants, process piping and other conditions of severe service. WELCO W-1200 conforms to AWS A5.2 [R60]. www.jwharris.com

Needed to practice my typing anyway, won't go into the spelling ;>{



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G.

08-01-2000 00:26:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to Greg, 07-29-2000 21:43:06  
WELCO W-1200: A high strength, bright finish, steel welding rod which will respond to heat treatment, flame harding and cyaniding. Its is widely used for the welding of carbon steel pipes in power plants, process piping and other conditions of severe service. WELCO W-1200 conforms to AWS A5.2 [R60]. www.jwharris.com

Needed to practice my typing anyway, won't go into the spelling ;>{



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
clickent

07-29-2000 14:47:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
Without seeing it I would say this is an ideal time to pull out the TIG. This would be my second option after just replacing the line.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
clickent

07-29-2000 14:47:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: While were welding, who knows about steel tubing repair? in reply to David R, 07-29-2000 14:25:54  
Without seeing it I would say this is an ideal time to pull out the TIG. This would be my second option after just replacing the line.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy