Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Electrical Question 110/220

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Jim

11-26-2003 06:44:37




Report to Moderator

I have a cabin with 2 wires coming from the pole to a 30 amp fuse box,(two fuses). My wife wants a 220 washer/dryer combination installed. The fellow that wants to sell me the washer/dryer says I can trick the 110 2 wire system to accept the 220. I dont see how 110 can be converted to 220 and I think he is wrong. Any help you have would be appreciated, the guy wont refund any money just give a man credit to buy something else....Thanks, Jim

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Electrican in Carolina

11-27-2003 12:06:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
Willy-N Has the solution to the problem. Hire someone to upgrade your electrical service to 200 amps. Install ground fault receptables outside, Kitchen,bathroon or any place you may come in contact with moisture. Hire some one who knows the electrical code and knows what he is doing. This way you have no electrical hazards and you won't burn down your house. A 240 volt clothes dryer pulls about 24 amps. If you could rewire it to 120 volts it would pull about 58 amps to produce the same watts.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
another electrican

11-28-2003 14:18:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Electrican in Carolina, 11-27-2003 12:06:39  
better go over calks again.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Electrican in Carolina

11-29-2003 10:32:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to another electrican, 11-28-2003 14:18:25  
You are right!!!!! I meant to say 48 amps but my finger hit the 5 instead. I am used to hooking up wires not computer keys. Thanks



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Paul Janke

11-27-2003 06:48:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
What I think the dryer sales person was telling you is that the motors in the dryer are 120V. The heating element is often the only 240V part in the thing. I have heard of opening up the dryer and rewiring the element to 120V instead of 240V. It will put out only half as much heat, but it is now a 120V appliance. You may still not have enough amperage available to run it, but it is 120V.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
paul

11-26-2003 22:12:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
Something seems really odd to me because of the 2 fuses. Are you sure this is 110 service? It's common to have 2 wires running to your transformer, the transformer will have 3 coming out of it????? But....

30 amps is not strong enough to run a drier. Or I should say, it takes 30 amps to run the drier - you couldn't even have another light bulb on in your whole place.

So no, nothing will work but to rewire the service entrance. Even if you find a trick to make a 220 drier work on 110, you just don't have enough power coming in through the main fuses to make a jury-rigged trick work either.....

I've got 220 service on my farm with 2 60 anp fuses at main disconnect - really a stretch to work with such little power in today's world.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Willy-N

11-26-2003 22:44:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to paul, 11-26-2003 22:12:43  
A long time ago they used to have 30 Amp 120 Volt services. Most of the time it had both wires fused. At one time all we needed was a few lights for our homes but now is a different story. I have changed out many of these types of services and they had black meters with a plate held by 2 screws covering the 2 insulated wires going in and 2 going out. They had no meter socket and just screwed to the wall and most of them fed what you called "Knob and Tube" wireing. All open wiring ran thru porslin tubes and knobs with peice of leather and a nail thru the center to hold it on a board. They also used a cloth loom to protect it going in and out of the boxes and into the service when the fuses were. Most conections were made in the wall and soderd and taped. This way they only ran 2 wires into the boxes which were undersized compaired to todays standards. The would put the device on the wire and pull the excess out of the box and screw the decice down befor the lath and plaster or wall covering was put on. 70 to 100 year old style of wiring. Mark H.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Nebraska Cowman

11-26-2003 17:26:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
If you knew what you were doing you could run a neutral and make it work but it would be substandard and if you get a licensed electricion he will not stand for it. Best thing is to hire a heavier service installed.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
VADAVE

11-26-2003 10:21:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
This can be done. That said Jarod has it right--to be safe put in a new line.
Now this is how it works. 220 lines are three wire one wire is ground or neutral; from the neutral to each of the otyher wires is 110 Volt. To trick the system you take two breakers tie the neutrals together--now you have a three wire arrangement. It won't show 220 across the hot wires but the dryer MIGHT work. Big problem is the amount of power coming into the building.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
tech4

11-26-2003 12:40:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to VADAVE, 11-26-2003 10:21:03  
Folks it is not going to work. You have a two wire service which is one (1) 120 volt line and a neutral which is also grounded at the transformer and should be at the cabin. The reason for 2 30 amp fuses is that it is a 60 amp service with 2 circuits in the cabin. You will have about as much luck tricking a 120 circuit to 220 volts as you will in tricking the bank to pay for the washer/dryer with out charging your account.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jarod

11-26-2003 10:20:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
One other thing. Your old service probably has inadequate wiring from the weatherhead (Where your wiring stops and the utilities wiring starts) to the meterbase. When you go down to your local utility to get the meterbase, see if they will sell (or let you have) some #2 aluminum or #4 copper (or heavier) suitable for a riser. Most utilities throw away gobs of spool ends in their scrap dumpsters. They should also be able to supply you with a house knob (to tie service to) and the proper flange for a 2" riser conduit with your new meter base. You may even get lucky and find an old weatherhead and some 2" schedule 40 conduit in their steel scrap dumpster (ask first of course). Good luck Jim, since you are asking, I know you can do it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mac

11-26-2003 10:16:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
Jarod has you covered on this project. Sounds like you are underwired anyhow. When it comes to elec, I avoid the tricks.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jarod

11-26-2003 10:06:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
Jim, You need to make your wife happy. Do the right thing. You can do all of this over a couple of pay periods without interrupting your existing electric service. Wait until you have it all constructed correctly and the utility is ready to connect before moving old service! It is easier than it sounds but hard to get started. Go down to your utility company office and get a 100-200 amp meter base (free). Check to make sure you have 220 service available. If you are within 300' of a transformer (the trashcan at the top of the pole-you are ok, but the utility may have to upgrade your service to triplex) Go to your local hardware store and buy a standard 100 amp breaker box with at least 6 knock outs. USe the top two knock outs to plumb the electricity from the new meter base through 100 amp breakers (you will need to buy these-this will serve as your new main disconnect) to supply power to the two bars in the box. The next knock outs you will install a 30 amp 220 breaker to take power from the bars to your washer/dryer. Use at least #8 copper wire to serve an electric dryer (this is dependent on distance-may need to be heavier). The dryer will need to be on this 30 amp 220 breaker by itself. Since it sounds like you already have the load distributed in the cabin on two separate breakers, transfer the wiring to the new breaker box exactly as you see it in the old one, but put one on one bar and the other on the other bar. This will be easy as you will install two new breakers to replace the old ones. Each successive knock out goes to a different power bar. This should also balance the load close enough for circus work. I would suggest using a GFI breaker for the feed to any outdoor outlets or bathroom outlets. This will cost a bit more. I know this sounds like a lot, but it is the only safe way. 30 amp 120 service is not sufficient for an electric dryer. You will overload the wiring and cause a fire. Do yourself a favor, spend the $75-100 on materials. You can learn to do the wiring from research at the library or from a friend who is familiar with electrical wiring. It is VERY likely the service man or engineer from your local utility would be happy to inspect your work and give you some useful pointers. When complete, you will call your utility to have a new meter installed in the new meter base (should be free) and some utilities charge about $25 for a meter re-connect. 120 meters are rarely used these days and they may tell you they don't need it. Put it and the meter base (especially if it is a round one) on ebay and you may make some of your money back from people who make lamps from these old parts. If you are still unsure, hire an electrician. Most like this type of rough in work and can be very helpful. The knowledge you will gain will be worth what you pay. Besides, if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy and here is your chance to learn to wire that new barn she's gonna let you build 'cause you are so good to her!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Willy-N

11-26-2003 17:39:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jarod, 11-26-2003 10:06:45  
You left out a few things. Is it a Mast Strike (2" rigid) or Knob Strike off the house(4/bolt) or thru the eves with a bolt into 2X6 backing? Is the panel going inside or outside and location to meet code. If outside needs to be weather proof. He better consult the serveing uitilitys for what they want for a service first. Some places you buy the meter socket and the power company pervides the Meter. Better also find out if it is state inspected or city and check there codes they are different. Setting your own service is not realy that easy to do for the first timers. Dose it take 1 ground rod or 2, galvinised or copper clad, 6 ft, 8 ft or 10ft diameter 1/2" or 5/8" bronze accorn ground clamp approved for direct contact to earth? How far apart do they want the ground rods if they want 2 of them, 8' or 10 ft?? Lots of little things to find out. Dryers are a #10 Copper 30 amps 10/3 with ground and use the neutral for the grounded conductor. Bonding the water system that is needed also, is the plumbing also required to be bonded. Height of the meter, front 1/3rd of the building?? Location of the panel not over the washer or in the kitchen or closets. He better do his home work or he may have to do a lot of things over. Mark H.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Red Dave

11-26-2003 10:02:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
I don't understand why a 110 volt 2 wire 30 amp circuit would have 2 fuses. Are you sure it is only 110? Is it an ungrounded circuit now?
Not sure how it could be done, maybe he wants to use earth ground as your neutral?
I'd be real skeptical about this for safety reasons. He could leave you with a real electrical or fire hazard.
Seen some weird setups, but don't recall one quite like that.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
T_Bone

11-26-2003 09:48:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
Hi Jim,

Here in AZ, the electric utility ran a neutral wire back too the generator, no thats not a misprint.

With 1ph 12000v and a neutral, they magneticly introduce the second phase of 115v thru a step down transformer thus ending with 2 lines of 115v out of phase for residential service.

When I first seen this about 5 yrs ago, I stopped and asked the linemen how it worked and they couldn't tell me. They were told to run line "B" back to the generator with little explantion other than safety. They did state this doubled the line capicity of the system.

Since I'm retired, I never persued the techincal side of this circuit.

What you might consider, is running a hot water solar system and use HW as the heat for the dryer.
I listed a link to a brief explantion of a great little solar HW system.

You could also use a LP gas dryer.

T_Bone

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Willy-N

11-26-2003 08:21:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
He is probley going to use a step up transformer to do it. As long as it dose not need 120 volts for the motors requiring a neutral it will work. If the washer requires 120 volts it will haft to have a separate circuit and if the dryer has a 120 volt motor in it the transformer idea won't work with out a lot of jerry rigging to get it done. Mark H.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
old

11-26-2003 08:12:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
I think I know how he would do it but its very unsafe. Its done by takeing the ground wire out and hooking it up to the other side/to the other hot wire but that leaves you with no ground which will get people hurt. Don't do it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
tech4

11-26-2003 07:25:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Electrical Question 110/220 in reply to Jim, 11-26-2003 06:44:37  
Simple, tell the dealer to do the trick and you will buy and pay for the w/d and if he can't then take it back. If you only have 2 wires, I bet the trick will not work.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy