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EIL

11-21-2003 14:18:56




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I know this has nothing to do with tools but you guys have been so much help in the past and I had no idea where else to post this so here goes. I am a student at a vo-tech school and I am going for diesel mechanics. Well, my teacher is more strict on me than enyone else in the shop and he is always riding my but for something. Either I should have put the other bolt in first or I stand around with my finger up my but, etc... Occationaly he will tell me that I am the hardest worker or I am the only one getting anything out of the coarse (which I am the only one who goes every day and is never just standing around), but it isn't often. He is usually a pain in the but only in front of other people. When it's just me and him, he is very helpful. Like today he told me that I should have just taken the briggs appart that I was working on even though the problem probably isn't internal. He said, "I will never get on you for doing something". Then today he was riding my but once again because I removed the head even though it wasn't neccessary at first but it had to be done and he got mad because the head hasket would now have to be replaced. He even stood next to me telling me my bad points for about 15 minutes but he won't talk bad about nayone else. What I am wondering is, are bosses like this or is it just him? I mean he obviously has favorites and is never satisfied with whatever I do. I will be working in about 6 months. Is this something that I will have to get used while working somewhere or is he just trying to aggrivate me? Thanks for the advice!!!!! !!!

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Nolan

11-25-2003 06:27:11




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
So you've got a teacher that comes from the school of demean you in public, and praise you in private. Sorry to hear that. It's a lousy method and all too common. So I'm going to disagree with all those who are saying this is a really good teacher. Working a student to their potential is very different then simply being a jerk.

As for bosses, yea, a lot of bosses are that way, but by no means are all of them that way. I don't recommend sticking with ones who are. There's plenty of jobs out there with better bosses and working conditions.

But, I suspect there's a portion of the story missing from your telling. Some things that you're not getting. Some issues with time, standard procedures and such. For example, pulling the head to decarbon is standard tune up practice in any small engine shop. So failure to do so is normally frowned on. If things are slack in the class, and you've got the time to open up an engine to learn on, that's a good thing. But not of course if it's 2:30 in the afternoon and the owner is coming by at 4:00 to take it home.

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Dr Cy Kosis

11-24-2003 13:44:49




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Well, my answer is quite different.

I'd sit down in a huff and drink coffee for a while, then go to the growler for the rest of the day and file a really long grievance against him, then lay out the next day and let him try to figure out who he can get to cover my job.



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uglyoldfatman

11-23-2003 17:43:23




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
EIL;
I'm going to post my answer too your post before I read any of the others.

IMO he is trying to "teach" you.
He is "on your case" because he knows you can do better. That you have the ability to do better, or better than you are.
He believes you can go on to do the things you want well, but you have to keep your head out of your butt. He wants you to do the best, because you are an extension of himself.
Who wants to look at something they have helped to build, and see something that is not the best it can be ?
When you screw up, if you have a good boss, he will straighten you out without belitteling you.
You will have all kinds of bosses during your life, and some of them will be better than others.
Look at all of them, and take the things from the good ones that you can use when you are the boss.
Most of my working life, I have worked for myself. It will teach you a lot of things that you will never learn working for someone else.
One of the things it will teach you, is that you, as the working stiff, will never know all of the reasons something "has" to be done in a certin way, or why it had to be done at all. Just go with the flow, keep you head out of your butt, and learn.
Some day you will go back to the "teacher" and thank him for all the things he did for you.
Have a good life, and good luck.

UG!

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EIL

11-23-2003 09:48:08




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Thanks fellas. Ya'll cleared up a lot of things!!!!! !!!! Thanks again!!!!! !



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kolob

11-22-2003 19:48:49




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Just maintain a sly grin knowing that you have more a$$ than the boss has teeth.



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Bill 52 8n

11-22-2003 11:58:09




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
I'm in college for welding engineering. Like you, I am the one that is alway at class, actually do my homework instead of copy it like most of the others. My teachers always gave me a hard time when i was trying to hand in welds. I would look at the welds he was accepting from other students, even though mine was better, he would make me run a couple more. It seemed, just as I was catching up to everyone else, he'd make me go back and repeat something a few times. It used to make me mad, but I got used to it. For not knowing how to weld when I started there, I'm now one of the better welders, even passed my certification test. I think I've gotten more out school than other people in my classes because my teachers push me harder. I know I'll be better off than the rest of them. Hang in there, you'll get through fine.

Bill

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Bill

11-22-2003 08:24:48




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
He may be helping you more then you know. When I was taking training for my pilots license the instructor was not easy. Everytime it would seem to be getting easy to do something he would make it harder. I was determined not to let him get the best of me and I refused to quit. We would go up in the winter at 0 degrees, I would turn the heat off, take off my coat and my shirt would still be wet from sweat, while my instructor would be wearing a hat, parka and gloves. People I knew that took training with other instructors never flew in the rain, wind or landed on snow covered runways. I guess if it were raining at the airport where they intended to land they would turn around and go home. It all came together when I was landing at West Palm Beach, There was at left quarting head wind. As I touched down a wind gust took the plane into the air and I remebered his famous words "what ever happens fly the airplane". I controlled the plane and landed. I feel that everything went well because he was never easy and taught me how to handle the worst. Someday you may thank that teacher.

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Mac

11-22-2003 06:56:49




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
You will have good bosses and bad bosses, smart bosses and dumb bosses and thes bosses that use you to make them look good in front of management.
I worked 23 years at a place, I was good at my job, knew my job. Drove 40 miles in weather that was not fit for man or beast. Guy 2 blocks away "couldnt make it in". He was appreciated I think as much as I was. Always was in with the boss. Anyway as managment changed, 23 years later I was handed my pink slip. Irritated the H*** out of me. BUT, end results was I did get a better paying job AND since then the company went under big time. I oft wonder what happened to the boss. He couldn't have made it anyplace else.

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deadeye

11-22-2003 05:24:45




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Just hang in there as you will appreciate this teacher some day. Don't let your dog eat your home work. Teachers really get up set when you tell them that....--deadeye



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KURT

11-22-2003 03:22:52




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
It has been my experience that you have to do what the boss says and as long as you do what he wants in a timely manner he will appriciate you, usually. On the other hand if the boss is bad mouthing you then you need to look for another job, and usually as long as you stick to working hard then when you leave the job that $***head boss appriciates you when you leave because he now has to do your job or get a replacement. It sucks working for bad people but one key statement I will make, I have been working for about 20 years. Be early for work, dont cheat your time card, work hard, be honest and no matter how bad the boss is he will still appriciate all the qualitys I mentioned and usually not bad mouth you.

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Dell (WA)

11-22-2003 01:20:37




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
EIL..... ...BTDT, had a teacher that NEVER had good word to say about me. Don't remember much about the course, 'cept I dispized the course and the instructor. Sometimes you get locked into a situation where you just gotta suck it up. Same way with wives and bosses. There are some that are on a power trip and feel threatened by your competence. Then there are others that don't even realize how much of a bulley they are. But I'll tell ya what, give me a couple of "atta boys" every now and then and I'll bust my butt for you.

Just stay focused on your goal, getting eduicated and hired in your field. That first year of working for a real living is gonna be a son-a-gun, and the shop foreman gonna be watching your every move. Don't be a goofball knowittall playin' grabbass, be friendly and sincere and willing worker and then at the end of that year, evaluate your situation. Move on if you don't like it.

Heres a little story, my wife is a Dental Hygienist and many years ago we were living near Sacramento. 60 miles west in San Francisco, the Dentists were paying Hygienists $7/hr and jobs were hard to find 'cuz San Fran is neat place to play. In Sacramento, the Dentists were paying $14/hr and they couldn't find enuff Hygienists to staff their offices. The moral of story? Sometimes ya gotta go where the jobs are and sometimes the neat jobs arn't worth it. But sticking out that first job is worth its weight in gold..... .....Dell

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Roger

11-21-2003 22:32:48




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
I had a boss once who only talked to me when he had something to yell about. Fired me once for refusing to drive an hour out of town to pick up a piece of equipment, at five minutes to closing. Normally this would not have been a problem, but as they paid $0.00 per hour for overtime, and seeing as how I had my fill of the bas***d every day by 5 o'clock, I felt I was justified. On other occasions when I had worked overtime, I had come back to a closed shop, with everyone gone home and my coat and keys locked away inside. Anyway, after 8 months of this, I got laid off on my birthday. He shook my hand and told me to come back in the spring as I was one of the best employees he had. I shook his hand and fantasized about putting a jackhammer point through his skull. I didn't learn a damn thing from him, except how to hate somebody's guts. There you go. Some bosses are like that. Some teachers too. there was a moral there somewhere....Anyway, I heard a few years later that company I worked at had gone belly up (something to do with the owner having little powder rings around his nostrils) and our little dictator manager had to get himself another job. Seeing as how he spent most of the day either yelling at us, or sequestered in his office reading rental equipment magazines and other important things, actually woking for a living must've been pretty hard on him. Harder than I realized actually, he had been working for an overhead door company when somebody handed him a trouble light with a frayed power cord. He was on an aluminum ladder and got enough of a jolt to fall off it, right into a big puddle...along with the troublelight. Funny, he didn't seem nearly as animated as I had remembered him after that. I guess all those curses worked after all.

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Wayne

11-21-2003 21:40:55




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Hey EIL, I've been in that situation before too with teachers as well as a boss. Still I have to agree with the other posts, but only to a degree. Sometimes a teacher/boss needs to ride a good student/employee a little harder to make sure they are living up to their potential, but there are times when it can get a bit excessive. Personally when somebody is riding me like you describe then all it does is turn me off to whatever they have to say. If what you do this time is right and the same thing next time is wrong, all it does in the end is leave you confused. I had a really good supervisor once that told me he liked the way I worked because I was knowledgable enough about my job to tell him when he was being a dumb a$$ when he wanted me to do something stupid/his way, and smart enough to go ahead and do it anyway simply because he was the boss, and then if it didn't work to try my way. Because of this he and I both learned new and better ways of doing alot of jobs from each other. My motto on working for a boss has always been "If you want a job done and tell me to do it, then you'd better tell me exactly how you want it done so I can do it your way, because if you don't, when I'm done, I don't want to hear you bit-- because I did it my way". Sometimes I think teachers can get blinded to how what they are doing is making a student feel, and sometimes it's simply a matter of personalities colliding. Either way I'd take the time to talk to your teacher privately and tell him how you feel and get his side of things, and resolve the problem before you get to that point of not caring. The main thing though is to never think that you know it all, always be willing to learn. Even the most stupid person out there can teach you something, even if it's just "how not to be stupid". Never quit learning and a day without learning is a wasted day. Finally, make sure if you never learn anything else to learn to become a mechanic instead of just a techincian. Learn to rely on your knowledge and senses, and not simply to use your tools (scanners, computers, etc) as a crutch for real troubleshooting. Every tool has it's place, but no tool will ever replace knowledge and experience.

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JD-Tractor

11-21-2003 17:46:19




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Better get used to it, while we're on the subject of getting on your butt"you had better learn to spell and proof read what you write.Somewhere down the road you will look back and say"gee I should have listened to my teachers more,I sure do appreciate what Mr.-- tried to instill into me"The world is full of mediocre people and very few that give a damn about anything.



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T_Bone

11-21-2003 17:01:00




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
Hi EIL,

As the others have said, You have a good teacher there. What he's trying to do since your a good student and want to learn, is to teach you 20yrs of experience in a few short months that your together.

When I had students that didn't care or would not be aggressive, I didn't give them any more than they asked for. Instead I devoted more time to the ones that did want to learn and rode the "good student" hard, as I wanted them to be the best.

You'll see that it was the correct way of thinking in about 10yrs.

T_Bone

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kyhayman

11-21-2003 18:47:23




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 Re: Re: bosses in reply to T_Bone, 11-21-2003 17:01:00  
Well said, I agree completely.

The kids I have that might amount to something I try to stay shoulder deep in their a$$ every single day, even if I feel like sitting behind my desk, if my feet hurt, been up all night with the kid or a sick calf, whatever. 60% of my students dont give a rats hind leg about anything but smoking dope and drinking. The ones that do have a chance I try to keep them focused, just like the few teacher I had that I hated when I had them but wouldnt trade the experience now for anything.

I didn't realize what they were trying to do until one day in July of 1985 when I was out in the desert in El Paso TX raking sand at basic training. Senior drill was on me hard told me every single day what a screw up I was. I'd pulled double guard duty the night before and was 1/2 litre behind on the amt of water I was supposed to drink, white eyed from the heat. I raked sand 18 hours a day for 3 days. That was just one example of many. Maybe if I had had a few more teachers like yours he wouldn't have had to be on me so hard. I decided then that I was never going to work that hard again. Got out, went to college, ROTC, hitch of active duty, got out and became a County Agent first, then an ag teacher, and now a part time administrator thrown in. If it hadnt been for them I would have quit college when I almost flunked out b/c I skated in high school. Wasnt going to be the failure he said I was. That was less than 20 years ago and I thank them every day. Got a house that's almost paid for, decent wife, kid I love, new car and truck, and a farm that's paid for.

You will have bosses that push you because they want you to suceed when you get out. Also have bosses that couldnt find their way out of a wet paper bag. It doesnt matter, they are still the boss. When the economy is good you can tell a pin head boss to go stick it. If you do, just be fore warned, the economy will cycle down and sure as the world that same boss will wind up being a bigger boss at the employer you went to. Go to work evey day, if you are supposed to work 8 hours give them 150% from 10 minutes before starting time to 10 minutes after quitting time.

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Burlgoat

11-21-2003 19:44:59




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 Re: Re: Re: bosses in reply to kyhayman, 11-21-2003 18:47:23  
kyhayman, you were at Ft. Bliss about 20 years after I was.Hang in there on your teaching job I retired last year after 32 years.I'm enjoying every day of farming & raising my animals.Have a good one.



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Missourian

11-21-2003 18:21:25




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 Re: Re: bosses in reply to T_Bone, 11-21-2003 17:01:00  
You are really the teacher's choice student but he does this to keep the other students from hating you!! You are ahead. Been in both positions



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paul

11-21-2003 16:29:21




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
It will be much worse. Sounds like your teacher is treating you better than anyone else - you are his favorite. Might not look like that from where you sit, but's 90% sure.....

In the workplace, you will have good & bad bosses. But the real thing to watch out for are co-workers - they are supposed to be your equal, but they won't be. Will steal every bit of credit they can from you, to look good in front of the boss. Those are the people you will come to resent when you get home at night.

--->Paul

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Mac

11-21-2003 17:31:54




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 Re: Re: bosses in reply to paul, 11-21-2003 16:29:21  
A-MEN.. Been there and seen that.



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Pitch

11-21-2003 16:16:43




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 Re: bosses in reply to EIL, 11-21-2003 14:18:56  
What are your grades like? If they are right up there he is probably doing you a favor riding you like that. Naturally bosses come in all flavors but trust me the teacher is a lot easier than a boss. You have to remember when you are in the real world the only reason you exist at work is to make the boss money and you had better know what you are doing and why you are doing it. It does'nt take to many screw ups to ruin a shops reputation. As a new mechanic there will be a learning curve and all shops have their own particular way that the work flows and most bosses wil cut you a bit of slack but not for long. Hang in there and good luck

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LanceM

11-25-2003 16:37:00




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 Re: Re: bosses in reply to Pitch, 11-21-2003 16:16:43  
I see your "problem" through different eyes. I used to teach and though I don't quite agree with his methods I believe he is pushing his best student to be the best he can be. As was mentioned above so many students are in school to escape work, be on some plan, what ever, not to get an education. When by chance an instructor finds a student that wants to learn, you try your best to give them everything you can in the short time you have them, you push them harder than anyone else, if they break early on in the game they really didn't want to learn, if they fight back with results you have a winner.

My story goes this way, I had a young man that was in school on the GI bill, but got hung up with a crowd in the class that was on some stupid govt program that paid them to go to class and paid for the class. You can guess why they were there.

Well his grades fell to match his friends, and one day I yanked his chain in private, I told him he was better than they were, he make it through the army, he knew what it took to get the job done. People pay you for what you know not who you are. You can be a winner or a looser at life the choice is yours.

Well about 6 months later I quit and went to a better job. A year later I got an invite to this classes graduation party, I decided what the heck and went. I was the only instructor there, not only had this young man finished with a 3.95 grade average and the best job out of the class he pulled his slacker friends out of their hole and they had all finished with B's or better. They all said it was because of me, they felt none of the other instructors cared.... A proud day for me, one that I will always remember....

One thing I might ask your instructor in private one day is something like, "You push me hard all the time, is it because you like me or because you hate me?" It might open up a disscussion that will allow you to mention that you don't need your A$$ reamed to learn something like 90% of the deadheads in the class.

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Mike L.

11-28-2003 14:31:05




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 Re: Re: Re: bosses in reply to LanceM, 11-25-2003 16:37:00  
I agree with LanceM. Talk to your instructor in private when you have the chance and tell him of your thoughts. Teachers are human (most anyways) and will give you their thoughts. Working hard will not hurt you. You will know how well you have been prepared after six months in the world of work. Better to be over prepared.....than under. I have been a vocational teacher/administrator for 30 years so I feel I have some background from which to speak. Good luck in all you do.

Mike L. Ohio

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